gamnot Posted October 12, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 221 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 64 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/23/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/21/1945 Share Posted October 12, 2013 "Do not be over righteous,neither be over wiseWhy destroy yourself?Do not be over wickedand do not be a fool--Why die before your time?It is good to grasp the oneand not let go of the other.The man who fears God will avoidall extremes."This is from Ecclesiastes 7; 16,17,18What is the meaning of the phrase "over righteous?" Would this apply to the Pharisees in the time of Jesus who as I understand it, were divided into different sects in which those of one sect would walk leaning forward and those of another sect would walk leaning backwards, as if they were in a competition as to which sect was the more righteous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamnot Posted October 12, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 221 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 64 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/23/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/21/1945 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 Could this relate to the concept of humility as being as much the opposite of self-abasement as it is of self-exaltation? Or of avoiding what is referred to as spiritual narcissism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted October 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Yes, I perceive it as being self-righteous and arrogant about your "righteousness". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted October 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.08 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2013 Yes, I perceive it as being self-righteous and arrogant about your "righteousness". I would agree with that; one can't call THEMSELVES righteous. That determination can only be made by God and the brethren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Zion* Posted October 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,245 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,397 Days Won: 9 Joined: 12/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1984 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I suppose I haven't read David calling himself a righteous man but the psalms are peppered with statements of being right before God and keeping himself from wicked men and wicked ways and that he has not sinned before God (Psalm 18 comes to mind). Was David self-righteous? Was he over righteous? And what does Jesus then mean by saying "Be ye perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect?" Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamnot Posted October 12, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 221 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 64 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/23/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/21/1945 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 Yes, I perceive it as being self-righteous and arrogant about your "righteousness".I am thinking that making such statements about righteousness could be interpreted as to the motives of the speaker. Motives can be self-serving or for edification etc. I would agree with that; one can't call THEMSELVES righteous. That determination can only be made by God and the brethren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamnot Posted October 12, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 221 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 64 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/23/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/21/1945 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 I suppose I haven't read David calling himself a righteous man but the psalms are peppered with statements of being right before God and keeping himself from wicked men and wicked ways and that he has not sinned before God (Psalm 18 comes to mind). Was David self-righteous? Was he over righteous?And what does Jesus then mean by saying "Be ye perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect?"I am thinking that making such statements about righteousness could be interpreted as to the motives of the speaker. Motives can be self-serving or for edification etc. It is God who can see into the hearts of people and see their intentions. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamnot Posted October 12, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 221 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 64 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/23/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/21/1945 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) I suppose I haven't read David calling himself a righteous man but the psalms are peppered with statements of being right before God and keeping himself from wicked men and wicked ways and that he has not sinned before God (Psalm 18 comes to mind). Was David self-righteous? Was he over righteous?And what does Jesus then mean by saying "Be ye perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect?"I am thinking that making such statements about righteousness could be interpreted as to the motives of the speaker. Motives can be self-serving or for edification etc. It is God who can see into the hearts of people and see their intentions. Thoughts?Jesus made the statements: "Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect." and "The way to life is straight and narrow and few there be that find it." I don't believe that anyone can adequately strive for those things without the right vital interests and faith and that is something that relates to motives and what is inside the person. It cannot be done through legalism or license as cutting corners for whatever reason. Some televangelists have tried to use sophistry in their ministries and it sure to backfire. Edited October 12, 2013 by gamnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted October 12, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,257 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,675 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2013 My Amplified Version says Be not [morbidly exacting and externally] righteous overmuch, neither strive to make yourself [pretentiously appear] overly wise--why should you get puffed up and destroy youself [with presumptious self-sufficiency]? It seems that these virtues are for the sake of appearances--a person making himself appear more righteous and wise than he is. It is hippocricy and pride that he is warning about. We can strive to be righteous and wise, or we just are righteous and wise. These things are not something we can work at being and then be able to boast about it. Like faith itself, they are workings of the Holy Spirit within us that we cannot boast about. So the warning is against hypocricy and pride. We need to be ourselves and be transparent, letting God change us from the inside to more fully reflect Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRS81 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 "Do not be over righteous, neither be over wise Why destroy yourself? Do not be over wicked and do not be a fool-- Why die before your time? It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other. The man who fears God will avoid all extremes." This is from Ecclesiastes 7; 16,17,18 Wow. That's a powerful verse I must say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts