other one Posted November 10, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,249 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,978 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2013 Why is it only fatal weapons brought to this debate? With all of the available technology why are non lethal weapons not mentioned more? Even if used in an inappropriate/illegal/accidental manor a non lethal weapon prevents a casualty. The law suit that would follow would still hit the TSA or airport but no one would be dead. That said I don’t think TSA workers should be armed if armed security is available. If flying is so dangerous that we need to arm civilians who check bags than the whole system itself is seriously flawed.  In defense of the TSA however I do know a few TSA workers who are prior military and perfectly capable to handle a fire arm. LoL I know prior military that i wont hunt with because they are not safe gun owners. btw just because you have a gun doesn't mean you have to kill someone with it. just stop them in what they are doing and make getting to a doctor more important than mugging you.....  if the person is attempting to take your life is a totally different thing. the problem with non lethal weapons is that they are either very close range, or very expensive and can be problematic with batteries. when you get into your mid 60's and past you don't wield ball bats nearly as effective as when your in your 20's. if you shot me with pepper spray I'd find a way to kick your backside blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionysus Posted November 10, 2013 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2013 "LoL I know prior military that i wont hunt with because they are not safe gun owners." Lol I know a few of those too!  "btw just because you have a gun doesn't mean you have to kill someone with it. just stop them in what they are doing and make getting to a doctor more important than mugging you.....  if the person is attempting to take your life is a totally different thing." I understand what you are saying but the ultimate purpose in using a gun for self defense is to put bullets into a person. I understand the concept of deterrence but to quote Skynyrd "hand guns are made for killin they aint no good for nothing else" maiming someone isn’t a much kinder act. If someone wants to take your life however you and I agree 100%.  "the problem with non lethal weapons is that they are either very close range, or very expensive and can be problematic with batteries." Would you agree that the problem with lethal weapons is that they can be problematic with incompetence?  "when you get into your mid 60's and past you don't wield ball bats nearly as effective as when your in your 20's. if you shot me with pepper spray I'd find a way to kick your backside blind." Lol I gotcha. That said if you were trying to harm me and I had to pepper spray you, why would I stick around and allow you to recover? Why engage that situation further? Is there a need to upscale the use of force in self defense if escape is a possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted November 10, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,712 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,530 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted November 10, 2013 First there are practical uses for a handgun other then killing but that's beside the point. When it comes to self defense and you come into a situation where firing the weapon is your only option-shooting to wound is not a good idea. Extremeties are difficult to hit, and you never know what they're on. If anyone comes after me I hope for their sake they leave me alone at the sight of the gun-if not they'll find out real quick I only aim center mass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionysus Posted November 10, 2013 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2013 (edited) First there are practical uses for a handgun other then killing but that's beside the point. When it comes to self defense and you come into a situation where firing the weapon is your only option-shooting to wound is not a good idea. Extremeties are difficult to hit, and you never know what they're on. If anyone comes after me I hope for their sake they leave me alone at the sight of the gun-if not they'll find out real quick I only aim center mass  What are those uses? Defense against predator animals while hunting... and... opening windows and target shooting? I am not against guns or handguns but I can't think of any practical uses for handguns other than killing things. Edited November 10, 2013 by Dionysus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted November 11, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,712 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,530 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Well, you named a few already. I spend a lot of time in the woods and there are predators in my area such as cougars and bears-and a rifle can be a burden if your hiking, especially if you have kids with you, a handgun is far less bulky and easier to control. Its also a survival tool in the woods. If you injure yourself or get lost you can use it to signal for help, get food, or even start a fire by bulling a bullet out of the shell, stuffing cloth into the shell, and then firing it. There are even a small group of hardcore hunters that use them to hunt. They're great for shooting varmints on a ranch or farm if you don't feel like lugging a rifle with you. A .45 will eliminate a coyote just as fast as a 30-30. Competition shooting. Believe it or not shooting handguns is a lot different then rifles, just because you can hit a target with a rifle doesn't mean you can with a handgun. Many people enjoy the challenge, to them its a sport/hobby. And of course there's self defense. To me thats the most important-but I also enjoy shooting them for pleasure. So there you go, 6 good, practical reasons to own a handgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionysus Posted November 11, 2013 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2013 "Well, you named a few already. I spend a lot of time in the woods and there are predators in my area such as cougars and bears-and a rifle can be a burden if your hiking, especially if you have kids with you, a handgun is far less bulky and easier to control. There are even a small group of hardcore hunters that use them to hunt. They're great for shooting varmints on a ranch or farm if you don't feel like lugging a rifle with you. A .45 will eliminate a coyote just as fast as a 30-30. And of course there's self defense."  4 out of 6 are for killing things. That is a creative way to start a fire I wouldn’t have thought of it. Why is there often resistance when someone states that guns are meant to kill things? I am assuming that you don’t have an issue with killing things so why the scramble to claim guns are a multi tool? I am well aware that my Mossberg is good for shooting ducks and geese, maybe home defense, and I can use the slug barrel for deer but that’s about it. Although I suppose I have just learned to start a fire with it. And it also makes for a 12 pound club/paper weight.  "Believe it or not shooting handguns is a lot different then rifles, just because you can hit a target with a rifle doesn't mean you can with a handgun." I am one of those people. I qualified on the M9 but it was ugly. That first round took some getting used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted November 11, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,712 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,530 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I don't have any problem with killing things, but I took your statement to mean killing people. I should add though, If you like non-lethal forms of self defense if you have a good shotgun, take the shells and open the front of them and remove the pellets and replace with rock salt. Can still kill but not as likely. PS you originally said there wasn't any practical reasons that didn't involve killing-i gave you two, survival tool and hobby. So there are. Though, when camping your better off with matches-the bullet trick is very difficult to do, its a last ditch emergency trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionysus Posted November 11, 2013 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2013 I can see how what I wrote would lead one to believe I meant killing people. That is my bad for not being clear. When it comes to self defense at home my philosophy is that if someone enters my house and I am not in the room were the gun is located it is basically worthless. Maybe I can get to it maybe not. I have a few years worth of MMA training so I am quite confident in using self defense in non lethal means. Not that I am claiming I can disarm an armed intruder Steve Seagal style. If my hands are not enough and they aren’t scared away by the Mossberg I have some #2 steel shot for them or a tv they can leave with that I am sure they will enjoy.  I get what you are saying. I am a guitar lover and I enjoy playing them and collecting them. Lol I suppose I could start a fire with one but that would be heart breaking! I guess Jimi did it once... The main purpose of a guitar is to play it. I can collect them and use them as decorations (hobby) or maybe be like the Honkey Tonk Man (old WWF wrestler) and smash people over the head with them. Although when you use the word practical I don’t think collecting and decorating fits that bill. Maybe I am wrong because if it make you happy it serves a purpose... I dunno.  Have you enjoyed duck season? Are you going after any pheasants? Deer season just opened are you headed out for any of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted November 12, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,712 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,530 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Only type of bird I hunt is turkey so far, other then that its antelope and deer. I got my antelope and turkey so far working on deer. Maybe competition shooting/collecting isnt practical, but it is nonviolent. Survival tool is still practical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionysus Posted November 12, 2013 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 12, 2013 I got a snow goose earlier this year and a few ducks. So my freezer has some meals sitting in there waiting to be made. Hadn't had the chance to hit up some pheasants yet. I haven’t tried hunting turkey. It looks like a good time to set up a decoy or two then call em in. I hear you have to hit them with head shots. Is that true? Haven't bothered with deer out here. They have a lottery and I don’t feel right taking one of the few tickets. I imagine some kid could use my ticket while hunting with his dad or something. Besides that is way too much meat for just the wife and I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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