Hungry for God, not sermons nor day-old manna

[Fez]

God has led me to the simple fact that today's church is no different than the one Jesus preached against. There are a lot of people in our churches that are hungry for God, but no one to feed them. Churches have become a place of dependance. Churches don't teach people how to build their relationship with God to the point that they get their "mana" straight from the source. A relationship with God is like any other relationship. If you want Jesus to be your best friend he needs to be the one you spend the most time with.

 

I think it's sad that alot of church leaders today try and hook people into feeling like they need the church. There is coming a day when you will get arrested or worse just for trying to go to church. What then? If people have not been shown how to get in touch with God on their own then how many will fall by the way side? I'm not saying the church doesn't have it's place, becuase it does. But that place has shifted from the intended purpose to something it was not ment to be. Much like the difference from the Law and Aaron's work in the early history of Israel. Then look where it ended up, everything was for show. It was about the High Priest getting his ego stroked. People need to be shown how to get in touch with God. There is nothing I as a man can tell you about God that he himself can't say 1000 time better.

Perhaps I have difficulty with threads like this because I am looking at it from an African perspective, and from my church's perspective, and not a more worldly USA one? There must be, there are, very good bible based, spirit lead church's in the US, but all I hear is negative stuff. (not just this post, many, many posts). Why, what has gone wrong in America that it has become a nation of false churches (which is what a new member reading these posts would gain inference from).

[One With Him]

 

God has led me to the simple fact that today's church is no different than the one Jesus preached against. There are a lot of people in our churches that are hungry for God, but no one to feed them. Churches have become a place of dependance. Churches don't teach people how to build their relationship with God to the point that they get their "mana" straight from the source. A relationship with God is like any other relationship. If you want Jesus to be your best friend he needs to be the one you spend the most time with.

 

I think it's sad that alot of church leaders today try and hook people into feeling like they need the church. There is coming a day when you will get arrested or worse just for trying to go to church. What then? If people have not been shown how to get in touch with God on their own then how many will fall by the way side? I'm not saying the church doesn't have it's place, becuase it does. But that place has shifted from the intended purpose to something it was not ment to be. Much like the difference from the Law and Aaron's work in the early history of Israel. Then look where it ended up, everything was for show. It was about the High Priest getting his ego stroked. People need to be shown how to get in touch with God. There is nothing I as a man can tell you about God that he himself can't say 1000 time better.

Perhaps I have difficulty with threads like this because I am looking at it from an African perspective, and from my church's perspective, and not a more worldly USA one? There must be, there are, very good bible based, spirit lead church's in the US, but all I hear is negative stuff. (not just this post, many, many posts). Why, what has gone wrong in America that it has become a nation of false churches (which is what a new member reading these posts would gain inference from).

 

There is a new show out. It's called Preachers of LA. It is about 4 or 5 pastors of Mega churches in Los Angeles, California. It is about the money and the bling. The life style of these pastors. One pastor on the show even said he will not speak  at a church unless they can pay him a certain about. You walk into some churches and it really does feel like a performance. There are some churches that you go into and it feels fake. I know there are good churches out there. But most people don't have a deep abiding relationship with God. They think there relationship is build around the four walls they sit in every Sunday. I think part of the problem with America is people don't have to trust God. They have money that can help them work it out. They have doctors they can go to that are right down the street. But as you know probably more then most, is there are a lot of places in the world that don't have the riches the US has. There are people in parts of the world that only have God to turn to. They only have Jesus to depend on, because they have nothing else. I think the other problem is Christians in America have sat back and allowed people of other religions to take God out of our public lives. America has changed. I don't think that America as a nation wants to be seen as a Christian nation.

Edited November 19, 2013 by One With Him

[One With Him]

To explain my point a little better on people not having a deep abiding relationship with God.

 

A sinner comes into church and gets saved. That person is welcomed into the family of God. They go home and read their Bible but it doesn't seem to make since. They pray and they know people say God hears your prayer but it doesn't seem like their prayers get past the rafters. This continues, some tuff it out just trying to muddle through and they pick things up by talking to other people. But most people don't get much of anything past the church services they go to. That is the churches fault. When Timothy was appointed Bishop by Paul, Timothy had been trained by Paul. Timothy was shown how to trust in God for everything. There was true descipelship back then. Jesus is big business, Jesus is a Billion dollar indrusty just in the US. Some people go the College to be a Doctor, some go to be an accountant and some go to college to be a pastor.

[Guest Butero]

A friend posted this on Facebook, so I apologize for the lack of proper referencing.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

"People are hungry; they are hungry for God and not substitutes, not sermons and programs, not Sunday school. No day old manna for these hungry souls, which like with the Israelites, turned to worms after one day. They want a fresh touch, a fresh encounter every day and that is their right. They want to “taste” of the goodness that is God, they want to eat the Honey from His hand and feel the life flowing from Him to them. They want the “intimate” touch from God that heals the soul like the oil of Gilead. They want to bath in the river of HIS love and presence, till they are clean and all the dirt and shame of this life is washed away in that river. They want to be refreshed by His living waters, filled by His new Wine & drunk and intoxicated on His love.

 

"They understand the drug addict for they have the same desires, the same cravings in their hearts for the Ecstasy and JOY to fill their souls that can only come from His smile while sitting at His feet adoring Him. They know the drug addict has just chosen the wrong thing to reach that stage of Ecstasy & JOY. These hearts use such words as driven, longing, desire, passion, craving, lovesick to describe what it is that pushed them away from religion into His presence. They have long since discovered that the “day old manna” of religion quickly turns to worms in their mouths and and they are made sick by it. Men’s programs do not interest them in the least anymore and men who are caught up in that system of works & religion do not understand them any more than does the heard that follows the religion of men. They are that peculiar people spoken of in scripture.

 

"These are the “Children of the Burning Heart” and they burn for only one thing, HIM, his presence, his love, his touch, his smile. They live to be ravished by his amazing love, overwhelmed by his goodness and FILLED with all that is HIM, and when they “encounter” Him they are the Happy Children of the Burning Heart. These understand when “St. Bernard of Chairvux! Said:

 

"To have found God and still pursue him is the soul’s “paradox” of love, this scorned by the too easily satisfied religionist person, but justified in the happy experience of “the children of the burning heart” St. Bernard of Chairvux!.......""

 

Bert Mystic Bliss Thompson

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Thoughts?

I have my own issues with much of the church and organized religion, but it comes across to me like this person is going out of their way to justify their distaste for church.  They are doing so by creating this image that they are super spiritual, much too good to spend time in church.  I really don't think that is a good attitude to have?  This person comes across as bitter.  I do believe there are still some good churches around, and God himself calls people to preach the gospel.  This person would attack them as giving them day old manna.  I am really disturbed by this person's words. 

[Dak]

A friend posted this on Facebook, so I apologize for the lack of proper referencing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"People are hungry; they are hungry for God and not substitutes, not sermons and programs, not Sunday school. No day old manna for these hungry souls, which like with the Israelites, turned to worms after one day. They want a fresh touch, a fresh encounter every day and that is their right. They want to “taste” of the goodness that is God, they want to eat the Honey from His hand and feel the life flowing from Him to them. They want the “intimate” touch from God that heals the soul like the oil of Gilead. They want to bath in the river of HIS love and presence, till they are clean and all the dirt and shame of this life is washed away in that river. They want to be refreshed by His living waters, filled by His new Wine & drunk and intoxicated on His love.

"They understand the drug addict for they have the same desires, the same cravings in their hearts for the Ecstasy and JOY to fill their souls that can only come from His smile while sitting at His feet adoring Him. They know the drug addict has just chosen the wrong thing to reach that stage of Ecstasy & JOY. These hearts use such words as driven, longing, desire, passion, craving, lovesick to describe what it is that pushed them away from religion into His presence. They have long since discovered that the “day old manna” of religion quickly turns to worms in their mouths and and they are made sick by it. Men’s programs do not interest them in the least anymore and men who are caught up in that system of works & religion do not understand them any more than does the heard that follows the religion of men. They are that peculiar people spoken of in scripture.

"These are the “Children of the Burning Heart” and they burn for only one thing, HIM, his presence, his love, his touch, his smile. They live to be ravished by his amazing love, overwhelmed by his goodness and FILLED with all that is HIM, and when they “encounter” Him they are the Happy Children of the Burning Heart. These understand when “St. Bernard of Chairvux! Said:

"To have found God and still pursue him is the soul’s “paradox” of love, this scorned by the too easily satisfied religionist person, but justified in the happy experience of “the children of the burning heart” St. Bernard of Chairvux!.......""

Bert Mystic Bliss Thompson

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thoughts?

I have my own issues with much of the church and organized religion, but it comes across to me like this person is going out of their way to justify their distaste for church. They are doing so by creating this image that they are super spiritual, much too good to spend time in church. I really don't think that is a good attitude to have? This person comes across as bitter. I do believe there are still some good churches around, and God himself calls people to preach the gospel. This person would attack them as giving them day old manna. I am really disturbed by this person's words.

I'm with Butero, this person is a bitter person, and he is creating this image of super-spirituality....

And agreed. Much of the church today is going downhill, but to talk about hungering for God in that way... THIS PERSON DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT, for he is only someone who is looking from the outside... and doesn't know what's it really like to have found God.

In my opinion, a real seeker doesn't talk that way, and people don't know what they truly want or would find in God. Yes, they could say that they are dissatisfied by a church and would like to know more of God, but beyond this... no. Discovering God is a journey through the dark lands and towards places beyond the comprehension of the ordinary mind.

[Guest shiloh357]

A friend posted this on Facebook, so I apologize for the lack of proper referencing.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

"People are hungry; they are hungry for God and not substitutes, not sermons and programs, not Sunday school. No day old manna for these hungry souls, which like with the Israelites, turned to worms after one day. They want a fresh touch, a fresh encounter every day and that is their right. They want to “taste” of the goodness that is God, they want to eat the Honey from His hand and feel the life flowing from Him to them. They want the “intimate” touch from God that heals the soul like the oil of Gilead. They want to bath in the river of HIS love and presence, till they are clean and all the dirt and shame of this life is washed away in that river. They want to be refreshed by His living waters, filled by His new Wine & drunk and intoxicated on His love.

 

"They understand the drug addict for they have the same desires, the same cravings in their hearts for the Ecstasy and JOY to fill their souls that can only come from His smile while sitting at His feet adoring Him. They know the drug addict has just chosen the wrong thing to reach that stage of Ecstasy & JOY. These hearts use such words as driven, longing, desire, passion, craving, lovesick to describe what it is that pushed them away from religion into His presence. They have long since discovered that the “day old manna” of religion quickly turns to worms in their mouths and and they are made sick by it. Men’s programs do not interest them in the least anymore and men who are caught up in that system of works & religion do not understand them any more than does the heard that follows the religion of men. They are that peculiar people spoken of in scripture.

 

"These are the “Children of the Burning Heart” and they burn for only one thing, HIM, his presence, his love, his touch, his smile. They live to be ravished by his amazing love, overwhelmed by his goodness and FILLED with all that is HIM, and when they “encounter” Him they are the Happy Children of the Burning Heart. These understand when “St. Bernard of Chairvux! Said:

 

"To have found God and still pursue him is the soul’s “paradox” of love, this scorned by the too easily satisfied religionist person, but justified in the happy experience of “the children of the burning heart” St. Bernard of Chairvux!.......""

 

Bert Mystic Bliss Thompson

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Thoughts?

There are some things that I see which are rather disturbing in what is presented. 

 

1.  The implication that if you are a committed member of a church you are, "religious;"

2.  That all churches have to offer is "day-old manna" and irrelevant sermons;

3.  The implication that one cannot find a deeper or more satisfying relationship with God in church;

4.  The entire article is focused on self;

5.  The article promotes view of the Christan life that is not biblical. The Bible calls on us to deepen our walk with God through service.

 

The Bible doesn't present the Christian life in the terms the article does.  The article uses terminology it it's characterization of how our relationship with God should be that sounds like how I would describe being tripped out on a mind-altering drug.  In fact, it is disturbing that he compares one's desire for God in the same way an addict needs another hit.  

 

The Bible makes the opposite claims.  The Bible calls on us to be sober and in our right minds.  IT places a high premium on wisdom and understanding making responsible choices.   There were mind altering substances in Paul's day.  There were addicts and alcoholics just like today, but Paul never draws on those things as analogous to how our Christian life should be.

 

What's more he uses intensely romantic almost sexually charged terminology as additional descriptions of how much we should desire God.  The idea is that we should long to be "ravished" by God is not biblical.  The Bible does not use that kind of sexual imagery to describe our relationship with God.  

 

The article characterizes church as the place where people who have no passion or zeal for God or to want a deeper walk with Him, attend.  If you go to church, you are getting nothing good, if the article is taken to mean exactly what it says.  It's only those who choose to leave the church that are getting something better from the Lord.

 

The article mentions nothing about Christians deepening their relationship with God through service, but that would mean being part of something that's bigger than yourself.  What we have in this article is a version of Christian living that is completely self-absorbed where the standard of measure is purely emotional and based on feeling ecstasy and if you are not living in that high mark all of the time, if every day with God isn't like an intense passionate lovemaking experience, something is wrong.  I think that is going to morph very quickly into legalism and nearly impossible to maintain in the long term.

[Dak]

...The article characterizes church as the place where people who have no passion or zeal for God or to want a deeper walk with Him, attend. If you go to church, you are getting nothing good, if the article is taken to mean exactly what it says. It's only those who choose to leave the church that are getting something better from the Lord....

I'm also with you, with most of the things you've said

However, about what I've quoted, you are generalizing, implying that there is only "one" church, and that this church is good -- this is wrong. The simple fact is that there are many churches out there, and that most of them, I think, are exactly like what the article describes. You cannot deny what is plainly visible to the eyes, especially to outsiders.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

...The article characterizes church as the place where people who have no passion or zeal for God or to want a deeper walk with Him, attend. If you go to church, you are getting nothing good, if the article is taken to mean exactly what it says. It's only those who choose to leave the church that are getting something better from the Lord....

I'm also with you, with most of the things you've said

However, about what I've quoted, you are generalizing, implying that there is only "one" church, and that this church is good -- this is wrong. The simple fact is that there are many churches out there, and that most of them, I think, are exactly like what the article describes. You cannot deny what is plainly visible to the eyes, especially to outsiders.

 

No, that is not what I said.  I didn't say there is only one church...   My point is that the article makes the blanket implication that only those who choose to leave their church are really, truly seeking God.  But those still committed to their churches are getting nothing but stale bread and are caught up in religion and programs. 

[Dak]

...The article characterizes church as the place where people who have no passion or zeal for God or to want a deeper walk with Him, attend. If you go to church, you are getting nothing good, if the article is taken to mean exactly what it says. It's only those who choose to leave the church that are getting something better from the Lord....

I'm also with you, with most of the things you've said

However, about what I've quoted, you are generalizing, implying that there is only "one" church, and that this church is good -- this is wrong. The simple fact is that there are many churches out there, and that most of them, I think, are exactly like what the article describes. You cannot deny what is plainly visible to the eyes, especially to outsiders.

No, that is not what I said. I didn't say there is only one church... My point is that the article makes the blanket implication that only those who choose to leave their church are really, truly seeking God. But those still committed to their churches are getting nothing but stale bread and are caught up in religion and programs.

Oh okay, thanks for clearing that up. You were presenting rebuttals in the other paragraphs, and there was nothing in that one, and so I got confused -- thinking that you were implying what I thought you implied

Perhaps you should edit it? Others might get confused too.

[pg4Him]

I have a few different thoughts about this:

 

1) The "mystic" person who originally wrote this has been propagating an anti-church message all over facebook. I have a sister who used to be a strong believer but has gone through a lot of changes in her life and and is now struggling - she called me last week all excited to tell me that she was now calling herself a Christian mystic because she found a "minister" on FB who "makes a lot of sense." This person uses general truths about the church's weakened state to slowly introduce a different teaching.

 

2) The American church is weak after so many years of people being screamed at that they're not allowed to "judge." I've had private discussions with pastors who admitted they are under pressure from various stakeholders to keep the attendance up, and the best way to do that is to preach very bland and basic messages. You confront hypocrisy or blatant sin from one of the church's most valuable/popular members, and they just leave the church. You do that enough times, and the wealthy people are gone, so there is no money for extravagant youth programs, and then all the kids leave. Even when a pastor desperately wants to reform their church, they are often outvoted/outranked/outflanked to protect the status quo.

 

3) The symptoms we see of weak churches are happening precisely because no one has respect for a church. It's the attitude of "the customer is always right" applied to our very theology. People are not loyal to a church, they are loyal to themselves, and as soon as they get tired of a church they will leave it. No one calls them out because, hey, what are you gonna do, JUDGE another person?

 

IMO This mystic person needs to be taken with a big heap of salt. It can very quickly lead people to an elitist mindset that they don't have to take churches seriously - and that will just hasten the downfall even more.