The Cross that Jesus Died On !!!!!

[Guest Thomas I believe]

Brothers and Sisters in Christ, I have often pondered this question, where did the cross go that Jesus died on. Before I got saved I belonged to the catholic church and vaguely remember hearing something about every alter in every catholic church having a piece of the real cross that Jesus shed his blood on. Since leaving the catholic church 24 years ago I have heard no one ever talk about this. I mean its not really important where the cross went as Jesus finished the Fathers command on that cross. But I am curious as it has been rumored that it was preserved. If the cross was saved and preserved , where is it ? The cross is a very powerful symbol for all Christians. Does anyone know the answer to this ? I did'nt know where to post this question so if its in the wrong forum could a royal member move it ?

[pretzelperson]

I doubt that the cross was preserved. My thoughts are that maybe it was re-used by the Romans to kill other prisioners and criminals. Maybe the soldiers used it as fire wood. It may have been owned by the government. Maybe it was thrown in the garbage.

I think it is best that we don't have it. I think people would tend to worship it rather than the person who died on it. Just look how crazy people get when there is an apparition of Mary on the side of a building. Just think what it would be like if we had THE cross--could you charge an admission fee to see it?

If a piece of it were in every catholic church, then I think that they would be like pieces of saw dust. I bet there are 10's of thousands of Catholic churches in the world.

I agree with you. It is an interesting question and I would like to see it. If it were preserved and there were blood on it could we pick up the DNA and clone Jesus? Now that would make for an interesting discussion.

[Botz]

I suspect if all the so-called fragments of the true Cross were gathered together they would now make up an object several miles long.

Stories about relics associated with Jesus such as the Turin Shroud,Holy Grail and pieces of the Cross are interesting...but mostly they are dead ends that jump from history into fantasy...a possible exception may be the Ark of the Covenant we shall have to wait and see.

[Ovedya]

I agree with pretzel.

There were actually three types of crosses used by the Romans. One type was literally a tree where the Romans would crucify or hang a criminal. Another type was a stake with a crosspiece at the top, like the letter "T". The third type was the most common. It was the type of cross that we typically associate wth Christ.

The "cross" consisted of two parts: A stake driven deep into the ground, which remained permenantly, and a crosspiece, which was carried to the crucifixtion site by the criminal. At the time of the crucifixtion, the Roman soldiers would nail the crosspiece to the criminal then hoist him up onto the stake. The process was very painful and very dramatic for anyone watching.

It is likely that the crosspieces were re-used until they could no longer be of any service. Then they were either tossed away or burned in a fire. Of course, I've always thought that it might be possible, since the Romans were such a cruel and bloodthirsty culture, that soldiers probably cast lots for the crosspieces, so they could have them as trophies. But I don't know if that's in the history books.

There is nothing in the Bible or any any hostorical texts which bears out the claim that Catholic altars each have a piece of the cross. But evn if they had they would have all turned to dust by now.

[shammah]

Super Jew ;

I agree that the Movie has touched the hearts of many; brought some to the door of salvation and others repentance.

But I believe salvation is to daily deny self, and a ever continual living more for Christ! Heb. 9And, [His completed experience] making Him perfectly [equipped], He became the Author and Source of eternal salvation to all those who give heed and obey Him !

Matt.10:36-39;

36And a man's foes will be they of his own household.(B)

37He who loves [and [n]takes more pleasure in] father or mother more than [in] Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves [and takes more pleasure in] son or daughter more than [in] Me is not worthy of Me;

38And he who does not take up his cross and follow Me [[o]cleave steadfastly to Me, conforming wholly to My example in living and, if need be, in dying also] is not worthy of Me.

39Whoever finds his [[p]lower] life will lose it [the higher life], and whoever loses his [lower] life on My account will find it [the higher life].

Matt.16:24-26;

24Then Jesus said to His disciples, If anyone desires to be My disciple, let him deny himself [disregard, lose sight of, and forget himself and his own interests] and take up his cross and follow Me [[o]cleave steadfastly to Me, conform wholly to My example in living and, if need be, in dying, also].

25For whoever is bent on saving his [temporal] life [his comfort and security here] shall lose it [eternal life]; and whoever loses his life [his comfort and security here] for My sake shall find it [life everlasting].

26For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life [his blessed [p]life in the kingdom of God]? Or what would a man give as an exchange for his [blessed] [q]life [in the kingdom of God]?

The Catholic church was Roman destoyers of the Christians ,until they corrupted the faith with paganism and claimed the Pope successor or supposed peters authority! They have no bones of Peter under a titteral building ; they have a cup of mixture, not Aposotalic authority!

Matt.16:18;

18And I tell you, you are [d]Peter [Greek, Petros--a large piece of rock], and on this rock [Greek, petra--a [e]huge rock like Gibraltar] I will build My church, and the gates of Hades (the powers of the [f]infernal region) shall [g]not overpower it [or be strong to its detriment or hold out against it].

I hope none turn to Catholicism because of this movie, because unless they ignore all the false teaching, they can never find their way to the intimate obedience Christ calls for in the scriptures listed above!

Also where is the way of self denial, and sacrifice to find true spiritual communion found? These people are awakened only to find a luke warm, or false way, a broad way!

But God will lead who He will lead; and some who see the movie will be directed ,I pray to true knowledge of Him and His Word!

It would be good to make a biblical movie on Hell and eternal suffering in the Lake of Fire, God uses all He can to save His own, whether the Passion, or the Punishment; He disciplines and chastises all of His sons !

But make a movie on crucifying the flesh, dying to delf, loving God and serving Him more than self or family ! You won't be able to give that movie away; that is why many are called and few are chosen !

The broad path of so called christianity is easy and never leads to the obedient crucified life!

The narrow way is one who is tried by the afflictions as in a furnace of fire, purified, as vessels of gold and silver , fit for the Masters use!

Agape in Christ; Ephraim.

[Guest Thomas I believe]

Super Jew ;

I agree that the Movie has touched the hearts of many; brought some to the door of salvation and others repentance.

But I believe salvation is to daily deny  self, and a ever continual living more for Christ! Heb. 9And, [His completed experience] making Him perfectly [equipped], He became the Author and Source of eternal salvation to all those who give heed and obey Him !

Matt.10:36-39;

36And a man's foes will be they of his own household.(B)

    37He who loves [and [n]takes more pleasure in] father or mother more than [in] Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves [and takes more pleasure in] son or daughter more than [in] Me is not worthy of Me;

    38And he who does not take up his cross and follow Me [[o]cleave steadfastly to Me, conforming wholly to My example in living and, if need be, in dying also] is not worthy of Me.

    39Whoever finds his [[p]lower] life will lose it [the higher life], and whoever loses his [lower] life on My account will find it [the higher life].

Matt.16:24-26;

24Then Jesus said to His disciples, If anyone desires to be My disciple, let him deny himself [disregard, lose sight of, and forget himself and his own interests] and take up his cross and follow Me [[o]cleave steadfastly to Me, conform wholly to My example in living and, if need be, in dying, also].

    25For whoever is bent on saving his [temporal] life [his comfort and security here] shall lose it [eternal life]; and whoever loses his life [his comfort and security here] for My sake shall find it [life everlasting].

    26For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life [his blessed [p]life in the kingdom of God]? Or what would a man give as an exchange for his [blessed] [q]life [in the kingdom of God]?

The Catholic church was Roman destoyers of the Christians ,until they corrupted the faith with paganism and claimed  the Pope successor or supposed peters authority! They have no bones of Peter under a titteral building ; they have a cup of mixture, not Aposotalic authority!

Matt.16:18;

18And I tell you, you are [d]Peter [Greek, Petros--a large piece of rock], and on this rock [Greek, petra--a [e]huge rock like Gibraltar] I will build My church, and the gates of Hades (the powers of the [f]infernal region) shall [g]not overpower it [or be strong to its detriment or hold out against it].

I hope none turn to Catholicism because of this movie, because unless they ignore all the false teaching, they can never find their way to the intimate obedience Christ calls for in the scriptures listed above!

Also where is the way of self denial, and sacrifice to find true spiritual communion found? These people are awakened only to find a luke warm, or false way, a broad way!

But God will lead who He will lead; and some who see the movie will be directed ,I pray to true knowledge of Him and His Word!

It would be good to make a biblical movie on Hell and eternal suffering in the Lake of Fire, God uses all He can to save His own, whether the Passion, or the Punishment; He disciplines and chastises all of His sons !

But make a movie on crucifying the flesh, dying to delf, loving God and serving Him more than self or family ! You won't be able to give that movie away; that is why many are called and few are chosen !

The broad path of so called christianity is easy and never leads to the obedient crucified life!

The narrow way is one who is tried by the afflictions as in a furnace of fire, purified, as vessels of gold and silver , fit for the Masters use!

Agape in Christ; Ephraim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shammah, I think you replyed to the wrong post ....

[RustyAngeL]

Thomas this is a very interesting question, but I agree with the person that said it's probably a good thing we don't know where it is because we would worship it rather then the finished work that was done on it by Jesus. I once knew a lady who claimed to have a piece of the cross that she wore around here neck on a chain in some clear resin. I doubted it then and I still doubt it. She too was a Catholic. If this is a work that Jesus did for all of us why would only the Catholics have the pieces of the cross? No it most likely is long gone but the gift that was given to us on that cross reaches across eternity.

Edited December 10, 2004 by Rustyangel

[Guest Thomas I believe]

Thomas this is a very interesting question, but I agree with the person that said it's probably a good thing we don't know where it is because we would worship it rather then the finished work that was done on it by Jesus.  I once knew a lady who claimed to have a piece of the cross that she wore around here neck on a chain in some clear resin.  I doubted it then and I still doubt it.  She too was a Catholic.  If this is a work that Jesus did for all of us why would only the Catholics have the pieces of the cross?  No it most likely is long gone but the gift that was given to us on that cross reaches across eternity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen Rusty ! I agree

[DaNcInAnGeL]

You know i have always wondered that too Mike..That is like one of those questions you want to ask God when you get to heaven..but as far as the catholic theroy..i really dont think that is true...Thank you Mike for posting this question.

Love in Christ,

Dancin

[Neil]

So what if pieces of the cross exist today? After all, they are only bits of wood. The true meaning of the crucifixion and the teachings of Jesus are what's important.