The Last Trump

[Izzel]

Both of you have everything mixed up

 

1 Thes 4:16 - is described as a trumpet call of God.  This is the completion of the Bride, God's handiwork.  This could happen tomorrow, one week from now or a few years from now.  Be ready, now.

 

The last three Trumpets are all Woes.

 

The Seal, Trumpet and Bowl judgments are poured out the unbelieving world (earth).  The Trumpets come forth out of the 7th Seal, the Bowls come forth out of the 7th Trumpet.  Shortly after the last Bowl is poured out Armageddon happens in the valley of Jezreel or outside Meggido.  This is near Nazareth.  This plain occupies about 180 sq miles.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Where will the church be during the plagues ?

[fruitfull77]

we were discussing the last trump-the seven last plagues still to come Rev 15:1 and Rev 16:1-21

My understanding on the trumpet issue, which is a minor doctrinal point, is that Jesus in Matt 24:30-31 sends His angels with a great sound of a trumpet at the end time.

Nowhere does it say that He (Jesus) will be blowing His own trumpet when He returns. He always assigns that job to His angels. In Rev 8:2 -we see the seven angels being given the seven trumpets. At the seventh trump sounding by the seventh angel this would qualify as the last trump.

 

How many people think Jesus blew His own trumpet?. Most research on this subject shows the majority understand the last trump of God (representing God's return) is by the seventh angel.

Verses like in Ex 19:19-the voice of a trumpet is the sound it makes

and God answered in a voice (speaking)  -trumpets don't speak words.

when it says voice as of or like a trumpet it means loud and blasting.

 

speculating on the nature of the trump of God is a misconception 

[Izzel]

 

 

 

1 Cor 15: 52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Notice carefully, "at the last trump". It is not trumpet, but "at the last trump". But, it is made by a trumpet.

Also notice, it doesn't say "angel's trumpet". It just says, "at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound".

In Revelation 8-9 and 11:15, you read about a series of seven trumpet judgments. When that seventh trumpet is blown, post-tribbers say, "Well, that's the last trumpet," when it didn't say "trumpet", it said "trump". The last trumpet is blown by an angel. The seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15 is not "the last trump" of 1 Cor 15: 52. In Revelation 11:15, there is the seventh angel blowing the seventh trumpet, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord". The seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15 ends the Tribulation and begins the Millennium. It doesn't catch up anybody.

The seventh trumpet comes after a rapture. Notice in Revelation 11:12, "Come up hither". Moses and Elijah are raptured before the last trumpet. So the seventh trumpet as nothing to do with any rapture.

In 1 Thess 4:16, the trumpet that calls you up is not a trumpet blown by an angel.

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

And in Revelation 4:1 -

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

1 Cor 15:52, 1 Thess 4:16, and Rev 4:1 as nothing to do with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15

I think if you look at Matt 24:31, Jesus says " He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other " This event happens at the sounding of the Seventh trumpet.

In Rev 8:2 we see the 7 angels were given seven trumpets.

Doesn't " trump" just mean the sounding of a trumpet?

 

This verse connects the second advent with the Feast of Trumpets in September. The elect that are gathered are the jews just like in Numbers 10:7, Deut 30:4 and Isaiah 27:13.

 

Ancient Israel used trumpets as a way of announcing special important messages and calling together their people.

Matt 24 is a prophecy detailing the events leading up to the return of Jesus Christ in the end time. The 7th trumpet announces that event and the elect, that is all those living and dead in Christ, faithful Christians who kept the laws of Christ will meet Christ in the air and begin their reign with Him on earth. The rapture train of thought is not biblical.

It was formulated about 1800 years after Christ. This gathering of the dead saints is the first resurrection in Revelation. The live saints at this time are transformed into spirits and made immortal and rise in the air to greet Jesus.and the other saints from the beginning of time.

 

The witnesses are not Moses and Elijah 

 

The seventh trump come before the rapture 

 

The last trump is indeed blown by Jesus and not an angel 

[Izzel]

we were discussing the last trump-the seven last plagues still to come Rev 15:1 and Rev 16:1-21

My understanding on the trumpet issue, which is a minor doctrinal point, is that Jesus in Matt 24:30-31 sends His angels with a great sound of a trumpet at the end time.

Nowhere does it say that He (Jesus) will be blowing His own trumpet when He returns. He always assigns that job to His angels. In Rev 8:2 -we see the seven angels being given the seven trumpets. At the seventh trump sounding by the seventh angel this would qualify as the last trump.

 

How many people think Jesus blew His own trumpet?. Most research on this subject shows the majority understand the last trump of God (representing God's return) is by the seventh angel.

Verses like in Ex 19:19-the voice of a trumpet is the sound it makes

and God answered in a voice (speaking)  -trumpets don't speak words.

when it says voice as of or like a trumpet it means loud and blasting.

 

speculating on the nature of the trump of God is a misconception 

Who raises the dead ? How and When are they raised ?

[Izzel]

we were discussing the last trump-the seven last plagues still to come Rev 15:1 and Rev 16:1-21

My understanding on the trumpet issue, which is a minor doctrinal point, is that Jesus in Matt 24:30-31 sends His angels with a great sound of a trumpet at the end time.

Nowhere does it say that He (Jesus) will be blowing His own trumpet when He returns. He always assigns that job to His angels. In Rev 8:2 -we see the seven angels being given the seven trumpets. At the seventh trump sounding by the seventh angel this would qualify as the last trump.

 

How many people think Jesus blew His own trumpet?. Most research on this subject shows the majority understand the last trump of God (representing God's return) is by the seventh angel.

Verses like in Ex 19:19-the voice of a trumpet is the sound it makes

and God answered in a voice (speaking)  -trumpets don't speak words.

when it says voice as of or like a trumpet it means loud and blasting.

 

speculating on the nature of the trump of God is a misconception 

The seventh angel sound his trumpet In the days of the sounding of the seventh angel Jesus comes and blow the trump of God or raise the dead in Jesus

[Montana Marv]

 

Both of you have everything mixed up

 

1 Thes 4:16 - is described as a trumpet call of God.  This is the completion of the Bride, God's handiwork.  This could happen tomorrow, one week from now or a few years from now.  Be ready, now.

 

The last three Trumpets are all Woes.

 

The Seal, Trumpet and Bowl judgments are poured out the unbelieving world (earth).  The Trumpets come forth out of the 7th Seal, the Bowls come forth out of the 7th Trumpet.  Shortly after the last Bowl is poured out Armageddon happens in the valley of Jezreel or outside Meggido.  This is near Nazareth.  This plain occupies about 180 sq miles.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Where will the church be during the plagues ?

 

Heaven

 

Not on this earth.  An Angel flying is mid air proclaims the Gospel, we are not needed.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Izzel]

 

 

Both of you have everything mixed up

 

1 Thes 4:16 - is described as a trumpet call of God.  This is the completion of the Bride, God's handiwork.  This could happen tomorrow, one week from now or a few years from now.  Be ready, now.

 

The last three Trumpets are all Woes.

 

The Seal, Trumpet and Bowl judgments are poured out the unbelieving world (earth).  The Trumpets come forth out of the 7th Seal, the Bowls come forth out of the 7th Trumpet.  Shortly after the last Bowl is poured out Armageddon happens in the valley of Jezreel or outside Meggido.  This is near Nazareth.  This plain occupies about 180 sq miles.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Where will the church be during the plagues ?

 

Heaven

 

Not on this earth.  An Angel flying is mid air proclaims the Gospel, we are not needed.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Where was Isarael during the plagues ? 

 

Is that a shadow of the future?

[fruitfull77]

 

 

 

 

1 Cor 15: 52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Notice carefully, "at the last trump". It is not trumpet, but "at the last trump". But, it is made by a trumpet.

Also notice, it doesn't say "angel's trumpet". It just says, "at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound".

In Revelation 8-9 and 11:15, you read about a series of seven trumpet judgments. When that seventh trumpet is blown, post-tribbers say, "Well, that's the last trumpet," when it didn't say "trumpet", it said "trump". The last trumpet is blown by an angel. The seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15 is not "the last trump" of 1 Cor 15: 52. In Revelation 11:15, there is the seventh angel blowing the seventh trumpet, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord". The seventh trumpet of Revelation 11:15 ends the Tribulation and begins the Millennium. It doesn't catch up anybody.

The seventh trumpet comes after a rapture. Notice in Revelation 11:12, "Come up hither". Moses and Elijah are raptured before the last trumpet. So the seventh trumpet as nothing to do with any rapture.

In 1 Thess 4:16, the trumpet that calls you up is not a trumpet blown by an angel.

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

And in Revelation 4:1 -

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

1 Cor 15:52, 1 Thess 4:16, and Rev 4:1 as nothing to do with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15

I think if you look at Matt 24:31, Jesus says " He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other " This event happens at the sounding of the Seventh trumpet.

In Rev 8:2 we see the 7 angels were given seven trumpets.

Doesn't " trump" just mean the sounding of a trumpet?

 

This verse connects the second advent with the Feast of Trumpets in September. The elect that are gathered are the jews just like in Numbers 10:7, Deut 30:4 and Isaiah 27:13.

 

Ancient Israel used trumpets as a way of announcing special important messages and calling together their people.

Matt 24 is a prophecy detailing the events leading up to the return of Jesus Christ in the end time. The 7th trumpet announces that event and the elect, that is all those living and dead in Christ, faithful Christians who kept the laws of Christ will meet Christ in the air and begin their reign with Him on earth. The rapture train of thought is not biblical.

It was formulated about 1800 years after Christ. This gathering of the dead saints is the first resurrection in Revelation. The live saints at this time are transformed into spirits and made immortal and rise in the air to greet Jesus.and the other saints from the beginning of time.

 

The witnesses are not Moses and Elijah 

TRUE

The seventh trump come before the rapture 

1Cor 15:52 at the time of the last trump the dead in Christ rise  to meet Jesus in the clouds and join Him on earth to be part of His rule-that is the coming Kingdom of God

The last trump is indeed blown by Jesus and not an angel 

is it the last trump by God or of God?

The rapture  as some assume is not biblical

[fruitfull77]

 

we were discussing the last trump-the seven last plagues still to come Rev 15:1 and Rev 16:1-21

My understanding on the trumpet issue, which is a minor doctrinal point, is that Jesus in Matt 24:30-31 sends His angels with a great sound of a trumpet at the end time.

Nowhere does it say that He (Jesus) will be blowing His own trumpet when He returns. He always assigns that job to His angels. In Rev 8:2 -we see the seven angels being given the seven trumpets. At the seventh trump sounding by the seventh angel this would qualify as the last trump.

 

How many people think Jesus blew His own trumpet?. Most research on this subject shows the majority understand the last trump of God (representing God's return) is by the seventh angel.

Verses like in Ex 19:19-the voice of a trumpet is the sound it makes

and God answered in a voice (speaking)  -trumpets don't speak words.

when it says voice as of or like a trumpet it means loud and blasting.

 

speculating on the nature of the trump of God is a misconception 

Who raises the dead ? How and When are they raised ?

 

Both the Father and the Son have the power to raise the dead-John 5:21

But Jesus is the one who raises the dead at His second coming -John 5:25. 

They will be raised by His voice.

[fruitfull77]

The Kingdom of God will be established on earth with the saints helping Jesus with His reign.during the millenium-afterwards a new heaven and earth with even God the Father joining us all on earth which shall be the new throne of God - Rev 21