Is It Possible To Fall From Grace?

[Repent1]

Greetings fellow sojourners,

God's blessings to all

Most of our friends in the religious community want to tell us that when God decides to bestow His grace upon us, we have no choice in the matter. And once a man has entered into God's favor (been saved), his continuing to receive God's grace is not conditional at all upon mans teaching, actions or will. Article 9 of the Methodist Discipline states, "Justification by faith alone is a most wholesome doctrine and full of comfort."

I can see where "faith alone" would be a very comforting idea, can't you? If that were true, you wouldn't have to worry about anything you might do. In fact, it would leave you the option of doing anything you might desire. Things such as cheating, lying, committing sexual immorality (and all that it implies) or even murder might be engaged in without fear of any repercussions from God.

It seems somewhat strange that people believe this, in that we have so much evidence in the Bible, of God placing conditions on mankind. In Gen. 2:16-17 God told Adam, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat..." Is this not a command from God that Adam and Eve were required to keep? Because of the fact that they transgressed that command (sinned), Adam (and Eve) were driven out of the garden and man was separated from God.

We see conditions placed on man's continued salvation all the way through the Bible. Most of the time the little word "if" (on the condition) is the signal of some conditions. In 2 Peter 1:10, Peter says, "for if (on the condition or stipulation that) you do these things, you shall never fall." In this verse never falling is conditioned by the word "if'.

In Acts 8:13 Simon obeyed the gospel (called gospel of God's grace in Acts 20:24). Yet after entering into a saved state he fell into sin as to be (1) doomed to parish, (2) having a heart not right with God, (3) needing to repent, (4) being guilty of wickedness, (5) poisoned by bitterness and (6) bound by iniquity. Some will tell us that he was not really saved, but the scriptures do not support such statements.

Here is a man who entered into the grace of God then turned to his own will and committed sin, refusing to abide by the conditions of the Lord and thus falling from grace. Either that, or with all of the things mentioned here against him, he still goes to heaven. But in Revelation 21:24 we read, "But there shall by no means enter it (heaven, jlc) anything that defiles, or causes a abomination or a lie...." That means sin cannot enter heaven.

Also in Heb. 6:4-6 we read, "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. The writer here is speaking to those who need to go beyond the first principles of Christ (Heb. 5:12-14).

It could not be the alien sinner since the sinner needs to obey the first principles not go beyond them. The writer is speaking to those (1) once enlightened, (2) who have tasted the heavenly gift, (3) partook of the Holy Spirit and (4) tasted the good word of God. Not one of these can apply to the alien sinner because the alien sinner has not tasted nor partaken of any of these and certainly not been enlightened, as the Bible throughout speaks of his state as "darkness". Instead this is describing the child of God who has not born the proper fruits, with the warning he can fall away.

Peter addressed his second letter to those who have already obtained faith of the same value (just as strong) as the apostles (2 Pet. 1:1). Would I be wrong in assuming that they were saved? After saying that they can pursue the course that will cause them to never fall (2 Pet. 2:10), he then points out that they can be "led away with the error of the wicked"(2 Pet. 3:17).

Surely it is clear that remaining in God's favor (grace) is conditioned on continued obedience to Him. Either these spoken of could fall and be lost or Heaven will have some who have left faithfulness and embraced the error of the wicked. God knew that man would attempt to tamper with His will, so he left us clear statements to disprove these human theories. Read 1 Tim. 4:1-2 and Gal. 5:4.

John 10:28-29 reads, "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand." Some will raise the question, "doesn't this prove that one cannot fall?" The forces of error will use many passages to try and lull people into security.

What is said in John 10:28-29 is absolutely true; no man, no force, not even Satan himself, can forcibly remove a child of God from God's care. No one who hears the voice of the Lord and follows Him is going to fall. And no power can remove such from God's hand. But in the points we have already made God's Word speaks of those who make a decision to refuse to hear, refuse to follow, and willfully persist in entering into a sinful way. No one snatched them from the Lord's hand: they willfully departed.

There is not doubt that one who abides by the conditions of God is enjoying God's grace, and will be saved eternally. Conversely one who decides to not continue in God's Word will fall from grace (favor) and be eternally lost. Remember Peter's admonition: "If (on the condition or stipulation that) you continue to do these things."

Walking with all people in the spirit of peace and love.

Your brethren in Christ,

Repent1.....

[tsth]

I do not know about falling from grace, but I do concede that as a church we have greatly dismissed the use of the word "If". If one has fallen from grace, or never REALLY come to a point of TRUE SALVATION/UNDERSTANDING OF GRACE, they both are equally as tragic, and need to be addressed the same and therefore makes the distinction irrelevant, only equally IMPORTANT!!!

IF ???

I'm just wondering, what do you do with the "ifs" in the Scriptures? I mean do you just ignore them?

John 15:6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.

Luke 13:9 And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.' "

Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Romans 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Col. 1:22 . 21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,

Hebrews 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

The Scriptures are filled with them, and I believe we do a great harm to people, "if" we neglect, disregard, or discount them and cause a great many people to have a false understanding of the Word.

What do you do with all those "ifs"? I personally believe them and do not disregard them. How about you?

In His Truth,

Suzanne

[Leonard]

Paul writing to the Church (not the heathens) in Galatia, says: "As many of you as are justified by the law, YE ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE."

[Guest PilgrimSteve]

"Also in Heb. 6:4-6 we read, "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. The writer here is speaking to those who need to go beyond the first principles of Christ (Heb. 5:12-14)."

"Hebrews 6:4 & Eternal Life"

http://www.nlbchapel.org/heb6.htm

[apothanein kerdos]

I can see where "faith alone" would be a very comforting idea, can't you? If that were true, you wouldn't have to worry about anything you might do. In fact, it would leave you the option of doing anything you might desire. Things such as cheating, lying, committing sexual immorality (and all that it implies) or even murder might be engaged in without fear of any repercussions from God.

This is a false outlook on those of us who believe that we cannot lose our salvation. We do not believe that one is free to sin once they have accepted Christ. Instead we believe that a person who has accepted Christ will show proof of a life changed and a life affected by Christ. Thus if one claims salvation but continues to sin, then they have believed in vain. They took an intellectual acknowledgment of Christ but did not commit this belief to their heart, thus were not saved.

It seems somewhat strange that people believe this, in that we have so much evidence in the Bible, of God placing conditions on mankind. In Gen. 2:16-17 God told Adam, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat..." Is this not a command from God that Adam and Eve were required to keep? Because of the fact that they transgressed that command (sinned), Adam (and Eve) were driven out of the garden and man was separated from God

This is not a condition to salvation and it also precedes Christ

[Charisse48]

Super Jew

I think your post was sooo well written, I believe and agree with all you posted. I have read all the verses and can say that you have much understanding of the scriptures. I feel we must be careful to look deeply into what we read in the bible. You have studied to show yourself approved!!!

Char

[apothanein kerdos]

Super Jew

      I think your post was sooo well written, I believe and agree with all you posted. I have read all the verses and  can say that you have much understanding of the scriptures. I feel we must be careful to look deeply into what we read in the bible. You have studied to show yourself approved!!!

  Char

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you very much. It's easy to get discouraged when it seems people ignore most of what I have to say, but your post really helps out. Thank you so much.

[Charisse48]

Dear Super Jew,

I know how you feel, and I want to encourage you to keep talking . You would be one of those that, would be such a joy to fellowship with.

God bless you Super Jew

Charisse

Edited December 12, 2004 by Charisse48

[eric]

Hi all, just a few verses to kick off with from Matthew.

10. and many shall be stumbled and shall deliver up one another, and they shall hate each other.

11.And many false prophets shall arise and shall lead many astray.

12. And because lawlessless is multiplied,the love of the many shall grow cold.

13. But he who endures to the end, he shall be saved.

These verses imply to me, anyway, that if Jesus was sure that once you were saved you were always saved, He had no purpose in warning his followers of the pitfalls that were possible to cause them to fall away Why would He warn us of false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing and the impending A/C if our eternity was secure. He said that the love of the manyshall grow cold, not may or might. Paul said that there will be an apostacy not might be and it seems to me that apostacy, means falling away from your faith and beliefs about Jesus. So if you haven't got faith in the first place, you've got nothing to fall from, so he was obviously talking to those who did have the faith.

Suzanne is right. We do neglect the word "if" which is a condition which means just that "if". I dont care a monkey's what it means in Greek, we cant all be Greek scholars. I am sure that the 30,000 Chinese, who accept Jesus on a daily basis don't care a hoot what it means in Greek either. I believe what is written in my bible as do millions of others.

JMHO,

eric.

[angels4u]

"Also in Heb. 6:4-6 we read, "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. The writer here is speaking to those who need to go beyond the first principles of Christ (Heb. 5:12-14)."