Is 'soul sleep' doctrinal?

[anthonyjmcgirr]

Jesus said, "No man has ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven, even the Son of Man who is in Heaven."  He also said that unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.  You have to be born of water and spirit as well.  So the reality is, none of that happened until Christ died on the cross, reconciling man back to God.  So no, there's no way anyone went to Heaven until the death and ascension of Christ.  If I am wrong, then there was no reason for Christ to die as man could already go to Heaven and be with God.  No, they went to a holding place called Paradise and waited for Christ.  Paradise was next to Hell. 

[Guest DRS81]

Jesus said, "No man has ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven, even the Son of Man who is in Heaven."  He also said that unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.  You have to be born of water and spirit as well.  So the reality is, none of that happened until Christ died on the cross, reconciling man back to God.  So no, there's no way anyone went to Heaven until the death and ascension of Christ.  If I am wrong, then there was no reason for Christ to die as man could already go to Heaven and be with God.  No, they went to a holding place called Paradise and waited for Christ.  Paradise was next to Hell. 

 

When you accept Jesus as your savior you are born again. When you are born again the kingdom of God is within you Luke 17:21. Also, when Jesus said you must be born of water and spirit he is not talking about physical water. He is using water as a metaphor to describe the river of life that is within you. Do you believe that Jesus is God and that he died for your sins? Have you accepted Christ as your savior anthony?

[anthonyjmcgirr]

Yes Jesus is my Savior.  But you can't be born again without Jesus as He is the only way, truth and life.  He is the ONLY way to Heaven.  So before Christ came and saved the world from their sins, how could you get into Heaven and be with God? I just don't see how it's possible. 

 

I believe the water is you being born the first time and you must be born AGAIN to enter the Kingdom of God.  That's why Nicodemus asked if we must crawl back into our mother's wombs and be born a second time.  He didn't understand that the second birth is a spiritual one.  Christ is the only one who could bridge that gap between man and God.  The righteous needed a place to go, but their sins still stunk to the Father until Christ covered them with His blood.

[Guest DRS81]

I believe the water is you being born the first time and you must be born AGAIN to enter the Kingdom of God.

 

No it's not. He is not talking about physical water. Water and spirit are speaking about the same event, being born again. Water and spirit in John 3:5 are speaking about spiritual things.

[anthonyjmcgirr]

Well I don't understand in that context.  Being born of water AND Spirit...they are two different things.  Baptism doesn't lead to salvation because it's a work and works don't save you.  Water isn't spiritual.  It's a physical substance.  It speaks of being born again, so the first time you are born, you are born from water.  The second time is spiritual.  But we can agree to disagree.

[Guest DRS81]

Well I don't understand in that context.  Being born of water AND Spirit...they are two different things.  Baptism doesn't lead to salvation because it's a work and works don't save you.  Water isn't spiritual.  It's a physical substance.  It speaks of being born again, so the first time you are born, you are born from water.  The second time is spiritual.  But we can agree to disagree.

 

You're on the right track but in error on a few things. When you are born again you receive the river of life in your soul. This is called anointing from the Holy Spirit. If you ever ask a christian where their souls are they put their hand on their belly. Water in John 3:5 is a spiritual term. The river of life runs from the throne of God directly into believers in Christ. Baptism is the result of accepting Jesus as your savior, baptism comes from God the Father. Correct, your works don't save you. The Father draws you in to salvation.

[anthonyjmcgirr]

That is certainly a beautiful picture.  I know a river of life flows from the Father's throne. 

[Izzel]

When the Bible describes a person "sleeping" in relation to death Luke 8:52;1Corinthians 15:6,it does not mean literal sleep.Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep.The moment we die,we face the judgment of God Hebrews 9:27.

For believers to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord 2 Corinthians 5:6-8;Philippians 1:23.For unbelivers,death means everlasting punishment in hell Luke 16:22-23.

 

What does this verse mean ?

 

Matthew 25:31-34

King James Version (KJV)

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

[Guest DRS81]

That is certainly a beautiful picture.  I know a river of life flows from the Father's throne. 

 

Another example of spiritual water...

John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”

Water being described as spiritual is everywhere in the Bible.

It's important not to take the word out of context.

John 3:5 is speaking about spiritual water.

[Izzel]

 

That is certainly a beautiful picture.  I know a river of life flows from the Father's throne. 

 

Another example of spiritual water...

John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”

Water being described as spiritual is everywhere in the Bible.

It's important not to take the word out of context.

John 3:5 is speaking about spiritual water.

 

Are you saying Jesus meant whosoever is born of the water ( Spirit ) and the Spirit 

 

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

John 7:37-39

King James Version (KJV)

 

37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)