Ananias's death and relevance for today?

[Botz]

quasar...

Ananias and Sapphira fell down and gave up the ghost. Why? I am not real sure this is only my opinion.

First, they gave up the ghost , God did not kill them.

I think most people would agree they died because they lied to the Holy Ghost and like Judas Iscariot had allowed Satan to be the voice they listened to...it was a carefully thought out deception.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

I think the shock of their crime laid bare was enough to induce a fatal heart-attack.

Something also worth considering are these words of the L-rd.

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

It is just a thought and I am aware this is not blasphemy...but it is a sin against the Holy Ghost and has resulted in dire consequences.

It is my opinion that they gave up the ghost willingly because they expected the curse to fall upon them, (old covenant thinking and believing) even though the new covenant was in effect(abundant life).

Never heard of this before.

The expression 'to give up the Ghost' is a Hebrew idiom for 'to die' and first occurs in Genesis usually in the same sentence as he died...eg.

Genesis 25:8 And Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years, and was gathered to his people.

In Hebrew structure the repetition of phrases in different forms is well known especially in poetry...here Abraham both..'gave up the ghost' and 'died'...it reiterates the point. It also shows us that without the spirit..the body is an empty shell...and if you have ever been at the death of a loved one you will know there is a real feeling that they are no longer there...all that remains is the flesh of a body that carried them...their earthly vessel.

In Foxes book of Martyrs you will find that many people underwent severe forms of torture that were extremely slow and designed to give maximum pain over as long a period as possible...some of their torturers were fascinated to see how long the spirit/ghost of a person would remain in the body until it was no longer viable!!

[carlos123]

First, they gave up the ghost , God did not kill them.

I am not trying to be argumentative quasar but it seems to me that saying the above is just a way to avoid facing the reality that God did put them to death through Peter. God does put people to death quasar and that's very clear in the whole of the Bible. It doesn't happen very often but that it does and did in the case of Ananias and Saphirra is quite clear I think.

Secondly, consider the mentality they were coming out of.

In the old covenant, the consequence of sin was the curse of the law, and every good jew knew that when you violate the law, a curse would come upon you, you expected it, and knew you deserved it.

It is my opinion that they gave up the ghost willingly because they expected the curse to fall upon them, (old covenant thinking and believing) even though the new covenant was in effect(abundant life).

This doesn't make any sense from a Biblical standpoint either quasar. If Anania an Saphira gave up the ghorst "willingly" because they expected a curse to fall upon them under old covenant thinking then why didn't more people with old covennant thinking "willingly" choose to die since there must have been many others in Jerusalem who were very aware of the curse of the Law?

And why did they "willingly" just happen to choose to die at the very end of Peter's sentences to them?

Not to mention that not a one of us can just "willingly" choose to die as Ananias and Saphira did. Without taking an apparent overdose of something or drinking some poison or other such thing. They just, plop, down they went and died. I don't see any "willingness" to their death at all quasar.

Our God is a consuming God who is jealous for His Church. We may not see such things happen very often if at all these days but that's not because the nature of God has changed. It is because we have changed as a Church in our wi8llingness to uphold the holiness and character of God even to the point of speaking death into the lives of those who are sinning as Ananias and Saphira did.

We do not have any Peter's running around today. Not because we can't but rather because we have as a Church tended to accumulate to ourselves teachers who let us slide when it comes to sin in our our midst.

The cross of Jesus and the blood that was shed for us does not in any way, shape, or form change the character of God. The same God whose dealings with man are described in the Old Testament. He is the same God today. What the cross does is allow us to approach God with freedom and confidence and to enter into a relationship with Him wtihout constantly being afraid that we will be struck down or cause his anger to rise against us, as we actually deserve.

God can justly forgive our sins through the cross and deal with us as though they were not (as opposed to having our sin continue to cause broken relationship with a thrice holy God). But He remains the God we see in the Old Testament in character.

Carlos

[carlos123]

Hi Boltz,

I think the shock of their crime laid bare was enough to induce a fatal heart-attack.

It seems to me Boltz that two people dying at the end of Peter's sentences from the shock of having their crime laid bare is extremely unlikely.

This to me is once again a way of avoiding the reality that God does put people to death at times and did so in the case of Ananias and Saphira through the insrumentality of Peter.

It was not the shock of their sin being uncoverd that caused Ananias and Saphira to die! It was coming face to face with the all-seeing eye of God exposing their sin and upholding His holy character through Peter's words. God put them to death.

If they died of shock from exposure of their sin you would think that today we would experience many such "shock" deaths for many have and continue to sin and once in a while some courageous Christian will point out their sin at least in the sense of exposing it still, though admittedly not as Peter did. Sadly, the number of Christians willing to speak out against sin in our midst these days, seems in very short supply.

Carlos

[Botz]

Botz...

I think the shock of their crime laid bare was enough to induce a fatal heart-attack.

Carlos...

It seems to me Boltz that two people dying at the end of Peter's sentences from the shock of having their crime laid bare is extremely unlikely.

This to me is once again a way of avoiding the reality that God does put people to death at times and did so in the case of Ananias and Saphira through the insrumentality of Peter.

It was not the shock of their sin being uncoverd that caused Ananias and Saphira to die! It was coming face to face with the all-seeing eye of God exposing their sin and upholding His holy character through Peter's words. God put them to death.

If they died of shock from exposure of their sin you would think that today we would experience many such "shock" deaths for many have and continue to sin and once in a while some courageous Christian will point out their sin at least in the sense of exposing it still, though admittedly not as Peter did. Sadly, the number of Christians willing to speak out against sin in our midst these days, seems in very short supply.

Hiya Carlos..

Hmmm..I don't think this takes away at all from the reality that G-d took their lives and I in no way insinuated it did...quite the reverse..heart attack ..schmart attack whatever was the means .... G-d took away their spirits.

Who is to say that people have not regularly died when the enormity of their sins have hit them with the combined presence of G-d. There are many many men and women of whom the world is not worthy and whom none of us will ever hear about that have been faithful unto death and undergone such hardships we cannot imagine...and many too who have moved in a power and authority in the Holy Ghost that we can only dream about. Don't forget that a large proportion of true Believers in the world today...do not speak english...and many speak chinese...and some have never appeared on the G-d Channels!

[carlos123]

Hmmm..I don't think this takes away at all from the reality that G-d took their lives and I in no way insinuated it did...quite the reverse..heart attack ..schmart attack whatever was the means .... G-d took away their spirits.

Hmmm...myself Boltz. I see what you mean. I suppose it does not take away from what God did to say that they may have died from a massive heart attack . Though I still think they would not have died apart from God intervening to cause their death as constrasted with a more normal death by heart attack for any number of reasons.

Who is to say that people have not regularly died when the enormity of their sins have hit them with the combined presence of G-d.  There are many many men and women of whom the world is not worthy and whom none of us will ever hear about that have been faithful unto death and undergone such hardships we cannot imagine...and many too who have moved in a power and authority in the Holy Ghost that we can only dream about.  Don't forget that a large proportion of true Believers in the world today...do not speak english...and many speak chinese...and some have never appeared on the G-d Channels!

Good point Boltz. I guess I was thinking mostly of the North American Church but you are right in saying that there is a great big part of the Church that is not white, Anglo-Saxon, and North American. Perhaps things have been happening among these others Christians in ways that are much more in line with what happened in the New Testament. At least I have read as much!

One of the best books I ever read on Acts type things happening was called "Anointed for Burial" about a missionary couple starting churches in Cambodia. It was absolutely incredible what God did among them if the authors are to be believed.

Carlos

[Botz]

Carlos...

One of the best books I ever read on Acts type things happening was called "Anointed for Burial" about a missionary couple starting churches in Cambodia. It was absolutely incredible what God did among them if the authors are to be believed.

I think I read this book some time ago...I will try and dig it out again. .. the book written by brother Yun called the 'Heavenly Man' is a very good one for a contemporary insight into what is happening in China now...they are sending 100,000 missionaries to evangelize the West...and they estimate 10,000 will be martyred. I had the privilege to sit under his ministry at a conference earlier this year...the main thing that hit me was his inner joy...simple uncomplicated faith and lovely close relationship with the Holy Ghost.