We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not

[Montana Marv]

 

1 Cor 13:12 - Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face.  Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

 

You are still a sinner, you are not perfect, you are not perfected.  Not until one receives their new Resurrected body, like Jesus Christs new body, will one be free of sin.  If one has the potential of death, they are under the curse.  He who says he does not sin is a liar and the truth is not in them.  1 John 1:8 - If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Hmm a lot of people don't understand what am getting at so i will just leave it in Jesus Christ hands, i will be doing a post in a few weeks showing how Saul went from a Sinner to Paul who did not sin anymore. We are letting GOD down if we tell our self we can't do this with the help of Jesus Christ, if Paul can do it so can we and he did this before he was giving his new body in Christ. Don't give up we are in this together and one day we will be able to work more with each other for the Glory of Christ

Philippians 4:13 (KJV)

¹³ I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

so no am not saying am Sinless but just the bible tells us we can reach this point. love you all

 

Driven

 

I don't know if this is the place; But are you Mormon.

 

Paul still was a sinner after his conversion, and he still sinned.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Guest]

If people don't understand what you are getting at, than pehaps you should be more clear. Paul in Romans 7:15, actually laments the fact that he still sins. "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."(KJV) He is just forgiven, GOD no longer sees him as a sinner, but sees the sinful nature within him. Sin is a noun, not a verb. We have to get to the point that we can say that "sin is not my master."

[Jesus Christ Driven]

 

 

1 Cor 13:12 - Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face.  Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

 

You are still a sinner, you are not perfect, you are not perfected.  Not until one receives their new Resurrected body, like Jesus Christs new body, will one be free of sin.  If one has the potential of death, they are under the curse.  He who says he does not sin is a liar and the truth is not in them.  1 John 1:8 - If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Hmm a lot of people don't understand what am getting at so i will just leave it in Jesus Christ hands, i will be doing a post in a few weeks showing how Saul went from a Sinner to Paul who did not sin anymore. We are letting GOD down if we tell our self we can't do this with the help of Jesus Christ, if Paul can do it so can we and he did this before he was giving his new body in Christ. Don't give up we are in this together and one day we will be able to work more with each other for the Glory of Christ

Philippians 4:13 (KJV)

¹³ I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

so no am not saying am Sinless but just the bible tells us we can reach this point. love you all

 

Driven

 

I don't know if this is the place; But are you Mormon.

 

Paul still was a sinner after his conversion, and he still sinned.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Am driven by Jesus Christ and the word of GOD that is in english whitch is the King James, and this is the perfect place for me you are my family.

 

How do you know Paul still was a sinner after he was reborn and the Holy Spirit resided in him

Edited February 12, 2014 by Jesus Christ Driven

[Jesus Christ Driven]

If people don't understand what you are getting at, than pehaps you should be more clear. Paul in Romans 7:15, actually laments the fact that he still sins. "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."(KJV) He is just forgiven, GOD no longer sees him as a sinner, but sees the sinful nature within him. Sin is a noun, not a verb. We have to get to the point that we can say that "sin is not my master."

 

Romans 6 King James Version (KJV)

¹² Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

¹³ Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

¹⁴ For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

¹⁵ What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

¹⁶ Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

¹⁷ But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

¹⁸ Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

[Joshua-777]

1 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,  3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,  4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

^{Hebrews 14} how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

Romans 6:11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.  13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.  14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

 

 

^{Romans 6:22} But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

 

Ephesians 5:20 But you have not so learned Christ,  21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:  22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,  23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,  24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness


Sinner? Once yes, but He made me a saint! He calls me holy and beloved. Does that mean I have no potential to sin? No, my mind must be renewed to the reality of who I am. I'm born again. My born again self is not a sinner, but a new man created in true righteousness and holiness. Problem is, I still think like the old man. My mind needs to be renewed to the reality of who I am in Him. I no longer identify with the old man, who I was is not who I am. To call myself a sinner would be to hold a nature that Jesus says is dead over and over again over the finished work of what He did. I'm no more a sinner, than someone who gets second hand smoke from walking by a smoking area can be called a smoker.

A few years back I went to a prayer meeting. God's presence broke in where it felt tangible and I was on my knees crying before the Lord and He gave me a vision. I saw a 6 and a 7. I immedietly knew what it meant, 6 being the number of man and seven being spiritual perfection, it was how I viewed myself. I viewed myself as a sinner struggling for righteousness. But then, God spoke to my heart loud to where it almost startled me and said NO! and Showed me a 7 and an 8. then He said,  You are not a sinner striving for righteousness, I've made you righteous now your stepping into eternity. This was such a huge shift in my thinking.

He says in Hebrews that His blood is enough to cleanse my conscience. I can live with a clear conscience towards God, nothing separating me from Him. He paid it all and gave me His righteousness as a gift. I have no righteousness on my own, it's His righteousness imputed to me, but the reality of that is mind blowing. I am righteous before Him. Grasping this has lead to such a depth of intimacy with Him, I no longer have to try to be a better person. I behold Him and then I become like Him. I'm in love with Jesus and I embrace His love for me. That love has set me so free and I love it. I love freedom in Him! We die to self when we start living unto Him. When we fall in Him, obedience is a natural responce and you see what you have.

If a guy walked up to you and handed you a bag of rotting garbage and said I want to trade this for your house and your car, you would look at him like He's crazy. When we are beholding Him, we can see. Sin appears as a bag of garbage, and knowing Jesus more becomes the hope and fulfillment of all your dreams. The more you know Him, the less that bag of garbage looks appealing.


Righteousness is not the end goal of a believer but the starting point. We are growing from faith to faith, from glory to glory, and being transformed by Him.
 

[Joshua-777]

If people don't understand what you are getting at, than pehaps you should be more clear. Paul in Romans 7:15, actually laments the fact that he still sins. "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."(KJV) He is just forgiven, GOD no longer sees him as a sinner, but sees the sinful nature within him. Sin is a noun, not a verb. We have to get to the point that we can say that "sin is not my master."

 

 

Read Romans 5 6 7 and 8. In Romans 7 He's talking about being under the law. The law is Good, but I am carnal. We are no longer under the law, but under Christ. The whole chapter before that, he lays out the case that we're dead so we can take part of the newness of life and tells us to reckon ourelves dead to sin.

 I used to drink a case of beer to Romans 7, like, oh, Paul still struggles with sin, so it's ok if I slip up. Thats a lifestyle of compromise. By yourself you can do nothing, but He gave us His Spirit, that is the case in Romans 8, you can live by the flesh or the Spirit. Not flesh and Spirit. The start of romans 7 is talking about dying to the law so you can live unto God and contrasted living by the Spirit vs living by the law, and then explained when he was under the law, he couldn't But God gave His Spirit, which is the context of Romans 8.

Paul also said he lived with a pure conscience before God and knew nothing against himself. If Paul was saying he was in a constant struggle of trying to do what is right, then why would he say he lived in all good conscience before the Lord and he knew nothing against himself?

1 Corinthians 4:4 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. ⁴ For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.

Acts 23:23 Then Paul, looking earnestly at the council, said, “Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.”

[ajchurney]

We are getting deep here folks, and I like it! 

It is true that the identity for the true Christian is SAINT (hagios-holy (set apart) ones). We are redeemed, we are the children of the living God and our adopted spirit cries out ABBA Father! There is a sinful nature resident in our tent, our body. Because of this, we need to be being continually filled with Holy Spirit and walk in Him so that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (sarx -sinful nature). A person can be as free from sin as what they are surrendered to the Spirit. We can only be entirely freed from the sinful nature by ridding ourself of the body (death or translation), but this in no way means that we cannot resist the activity of sin. Much of the NT, some of which has been quoted in this thread, speaks to instructing the Christian how to not sin, how to walk in the Spirit. If one can abstain from sin for 5 seconds, then one can for 5 minutes, 5 hours, etc. It is simply a matter of submitting oneself as a living sacrifice, putting on the full armor of God, etc. and so forth ad nauseum!!! I disagree with the assessment that born-again Christians cannot help but sin continuously. That gravitates against hundreds of verses instructing us n ot to sin and how not to sin. If it were all in vain, then why all the exhotations!?!?

[Jesus Christ Driven]

We are getting deep here folks, and I like it! 

It is true that the identity for the true Christian is SAINT (hagios-holy (set apart) ones). We are redeemed, we are the children of the living God and our adopted spirit cries out ABBA Father! There is a sinful nature resident in our tent, our body. Because of this, we need to be being continually filled with Holy Spirit and walk in Him so that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (sarx -sinful nature). A person can be as free from sin as what they are surrendered to the Spirit. We can only be entirely freed from the sinful nature by ridding ourself of the body (death or translation), but this in no way means that we cannot resist the activity of sin. Much of the NT, some of which has been quoted in this thread, speaks to instructing the Christian how to not sin, how to walk in the Spirit. If one can abstain from sin for 5 seconds, then one can for 5 minutes, 5 hours, etc. It is simply a matter of submitting oneself as a living sacrifice, putting on the full armor of God, etc. and so forth ad nauseum!!! I disagree with the assessment that born-again Christians cannot help but sin continuously. That gravitates against hundreds of verses instructing us n ot to sin and how not to sin. If it were all in vain, then why all the exhotations!?!?

 

 

Thanks for explaining very helpful

[ajchurney]

absolutely, Driven. Joshua-777 also good words!

Driven, I thought this is what you were communicating, not that we can eradicate the sinful nature, but an exhortation to press on to maturity and a firm walk in the Spirit as a means of overcoming sin. Right??

[1x1is1]

I am sinless.....(as long as I am in here with Worthy Brothers and Sisters).  Out of this room I could stumble at any moment.  Every time I tell Jesus...."I got this" look out, there I go again.  Thank You Lord, for the Christian Bar of Soap.