A little freaked out

[EnochBethany]

Here you go:

'20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many  mighty works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

 

20: Indeed, so far as Christians knowing who is saved, Christians see fruits.  This has nothing to do w/ God's ground of justification:  by grace through faith.

 

21ff:  Perhaps you labor under the misconception that the term "salvation" refers basically to some award one gets after death after the judgment. But the Biblical concept starts with a new birth, a transformation in this life now.  -- The new birth includes eternal life of course.  But we don't wait for a judgment to get eternal life after an exam of our works.

 

As Eph 2 says, we are created in Christ Jesus [first] for good works [which follow our re-creation]

 

Doing the will of God is a necessary result of salvation, but is not the ground of justification by God.

 

Saying "Lord Lord" at the judgment is a waste of time so far as one's destiny is concerned.  The call on the name of the Lord (as an exercise of faith) leading to transformation & eternal life, happens in this life now.  Saying "Lord Lord" has nothing to do w/ calling on the name of the Lord for salvation in this life.

 

Do you have enough faith to right now call out to the risen Lord Jesus, 2nd person of the Trinity, God become man?:

 

Lord Jesus, please save me; change me, give me a new birth & eternal life.  I do now trust you as my Savior, and I depend on your death on the cross as full payment for all my sins.

 

Take the knee now!

[nebula]

How about this for an explanation?

 

Jesus told a parable about a king inviting people to his son's wedding feast, but the invited people wouldn't come. So he told his servants:

 

9 'Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.' 10 "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good ; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests. 11 "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes, 12 and he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes ?' And the man was speechless. 13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness ; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matt. 22)

 

No one had to change anything about themselves to come to this wedding feast. However, the one who came disrespectfully by not wearing wedding clothes was thrown out.

 

So we can't impose a whole changed life on anyone who wants to come to Jesus - as I said before, making them clean up before they take a bath - but the person must be willing to jump into God's bath, or wear the wedding clothes, before coming to the feast.

[EnochBethany]

 

 

 

 

  The gospel is that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

should not perish, but not definitely will not perish......   because there is more to it than just the simple English definition of that word believe.

 

Later translations do use the word shall not instead of should not and their is a world of difference in that phrase.....  and it can give one a false sense of security when that security is not a reality because some refuse to do the will of the Father in their daily lives.    John 3:16 is a beginning....   but only a beginning.

 

Should is quite clear & correct.  Christ's death is that you should not perish.  But you can do so if you insist.  You must believe in the Son to have eternal life.  I suggest that you read Ps 119 on this subject.  By grace  you have been saved through faith . . . not of works !  It all fits together beautifully.

 

..... and I would suggest you read Matthew 7:21+

 

I think I replied to this, but I don't see the reply.  There is nothing in Mat 7:21 that contradicts the gospel of "By grace you have been saved through faith, & that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast. "

 

We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works.

Good works are the inevitable result of faith in Christ.  Even the thief on the cross did a good work of confessing Christ on the cross.  Though the thief would have very few good works to claim at any judgment.  Fortunately, Christians do not go to the Great White Throne judgment of works & get cast into the Lake of Fire; Chrs go to the Bema, Judgment Seat of Christ where works are examined only with a view to reward or lack of reward.

[EnochBethany]

 

John 14:15

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

Yes, good verse.  How about the commandment to sing & make melody in your heart to the Lord? 

[EnochBethany]

 

 

 

  The gospel is that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

should not perish, but not definitely will not perish......   because there is more to it than just the simple English definition of that word believe.

 

Later translations do use the word shall not instead of should not and their is a world of difference in that phrase.....  and it can give one a false sense of security when that security is not a reality because some refuse to do the will of the Father in their daily lives.    John 3:16 is a beginning....   but only a beginning.

 

Should is quite clear & correct.  Christ's death is that you should not perish.  But you can do so if you insist.  You must believe in the Son to have eternal life.  I suggest that you read Ps 119 on this subject.  By grace  you have been saved through faith . . . not of works !  It all fits together beautifully.

 

Shall not:  I heard that in a popular Christian movie & noted that it was not the Biblical word in John 3:16.  That is a good point.

[ajchurney]

EnochBethany,

You said, "Lord Jesus, please save me; change me, give me a new birth & eternal life.  I do now trust you as my Savior, and I depend on your death on the cross as full payment for all my sins.

 

Do you believe then that one must recognize that he is a sinner in order to be saved?

Edited February 24, 2014 by ajchurney

[OldSchool2]

Do you see the difference between salvation and sanctification?

To require anyone seeking salvation to already be a committed, obedient and persevering disciple of Jesus is to confuse the act of salvation with sanctification, a process that takes a lifetime, and then some.

And if you "google" Lordship Salvation and COP you can see for yourself what this doctrine actually advocates.

Old School, if a woman marries a man but does not covenant to make this man "her lawfully wedded husband", what kind of marriage is it? If the woman wants the man's benefits but does not want to give the man her benefits as his wife, is she truly marrying him?

Whether the others are agreeing or disagreeing with the Google resources, I cannot say. But what I am reading from the others are not what you are saying.

A huge problem we have with Christianity today is people wanting Christianity for the benefits but still be their own god.

 

Yes, sanctification is a process, but with salvation what do you believe Jesus is saving us from?

From having been saved by grace through faith, only to be condemned into trying to keep it though my own commitment, obedience and perseverance.

[nebula]

 

Yes, sanctification is a process, but with salvation what do you believe Jesus is saving us from?

From having been saved by grace through faith, only to be condemned into trying to keep it though my own commitment, obedience and perseverance.

 

Scripturally, what is Jesus saving us from?

[other one]

 

 

Yes, sanctification is a process, but with salvation what do you believe Jesus is saving us from?

From having been saved by grace through faith, only to be condemned into trying to keep it though my own commitment, obedience and perseverance.

 

Scripturally, what is Jesus saving us from?

 

the future we deserve...

[EnochBethany]

 

 

 

Yes, sanctification is a process, but with salvation what do you believe Jesus is saving us from?

From having been saved by grace through faith, only to be condemned into trying to keep it though my own commitment, obedience and perseverance.

 

Scripturally, what is Jesus saving us from?

 

the future we deserve...

 

What does the Lord Jesus save us from?

First of all He saves us from our wretched selves, by transforming the one who trusts Him as Savior, changing him from a sinful Adamic man to a child of God. We are members of the race of Adam, described in Romans 1.

 

Here is our wretched state from which He saves us, merely for trusting in Him:

 

18   For the   wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who   hinder the truth in unrighteousness;  19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.  20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity;   that they may be without excuse:  21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.  22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,  23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.

24   Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves:  25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed   for ever. Amen.

26   For this cause God gave them up unto   vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:  27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

28   And even as they   refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;  29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers,  30 backbiters,   hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,  31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:  32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.

2:1   Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest  another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things.  2  And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things.  3 And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?  4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?  5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;  6 who will render to every man according to his works:

 

Second, He saves us from judgment for our sins.  He paid for them on the cross.  He gives us transformation and eternal life, escape from punishment in the Lake of Fire, banished from God's presence & blessings. He saves us from missing out on a life in companionship with Him with all tears wiped away, nothing but bliss.