Enoch2021 Posted February 20, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 ================================================================================ The names and their meanings are CORRECT in the slide they weren't added or twisted. Shiloh Confirmed them. On to Numbers 2 ....did ya "Get It" yet? Then Shiloh is wrong, Kenan means possession, maybe. It does not mean sorrow by any stretch. Lamech means "to make low", nothing about sorrow. I have already explained Numbers 2 to you, what about a "round about" or a "circuit" do you not understand? Let me help you out a bit... The Lord said to Moses and Aaron: 2 “The Israelites are to camp around the tent of meeting some distance from it, each of them under their standard and holding the banners of their family.” The word translated as around is sabib, which means a circuit, or round about. Nothing about a cross in there at all. Cardinal Directions are on a compass, and a compass is round. In Numbers 2, the Cardinal Directions are assigned to 4 tribes, the other tribes are NEXT to those tribes, they have no direction assigned to them. They are not behind the 4, they are NEXT to them. A straight reading of Numbers 2 would never lead anyone to think to themselves "yea, he is talking about a cross". That is an artificial reading added to fit a feeble attempt to make some cosmic connection. ======================================================================================= Last post to you Sir, Dr. Chick Missler is Certifiable by 10100000000000 LOL. And as I said, Shiloh confirmed the Names. Your 5 second Google Search is @ the heart of the problem. make some cosmic connection. Are you calling the Cross a "cosmic connection" ?? Cardinal Directions are on a compass, and a compass is round. Forgive me but..... :24: :24: The Israelites are to camp around the tent of meeting some distance from it They are AROUND IT!! Doesn't mean a circle LOL. Look @ the Picture....are the Camps "AROUND" it!!! Let me remind you.... (Hebrews 10:7) "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God." Jesus Christ is on every page in every verse!! Numbers 2: (Numbers 2:3) "And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah." (Numbers 2:10) "On the south side shall be the standard of the camp of Reuben according to their armies: and the captain of the children of Reuben shall be Elizur the son of Shedeur." (Numbers 2:18) "On the west side shall be the standard of the camp of Ephraim according to their armies: and the captain of the sons of Ephraim shall be Elishama the son of Ammihud." (Numbers 2:25) "The standard of the camp of Dan shall be on the north side by their armies: and the captain of the children of Dan shall be Ahiezer the son of Ammishaddai." The 4 Camps (and Numbers): Judah--- 74,600 Reuben--- 46,500 Ephraim----40,500 Dan------62,700 Issachar--54,400 Simeon---- 59,300 Manasseh--32,200 Asher----41,500 Zebullun--57,400 Gad--------45,650 Benjamin---35,400 Naphtali--53,400 TOTALS: 186,400 151,450 108,100 157,600 LION MAN OX EAGLE The Levites Spoken of in the next Chapter are: 22,300 Large. So, to Obey the LAW and to stay on the Cardinal Directions each Camp could only go so as Wide as the Levites ONLY THE CARDINAL DIRECTIONS ARE ORDAINED!!!! The Jewish Mindset is to follow the Letter of the LAW!!! (See Cardinal Directions Above); that means NO GO for NE/NW/SE/SW. It's actually SIMPLE MATH and ATTENTION TO DETAIL....The CROSS is The Only Option!!!! Special Note: The Symbols of Each Tribe are the Same Faces of the Cherubim around the THRONE OF GOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingForAnswers Posted February 20, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,033 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Shiloh is wrong, even he can make mistakes. As for your pretty picture, you can post it all you want, it is still just a fantasy and not what the Bible tells us. Let me break it down for your Barney style. on the East is Judah next to them is Issachar and next to them is Zebullun- the Bible does not say that Issachar and Zebullun are to the east, this you have added in to make your picture valid, but it is not biblical. then you get to the South is Reuben next to them is Simeon and next to them is Gad- the Bible does not say that Simeon and Gad are to the south, this you have added in to make your picture valid, but it is not biblical. then you get Ephraim to the west. next to them is Manasseh and next to them is Benjamin- the Bible does not say that Manasseh and Benjamin are to the west, this you have added in to make your picture valid, but it is not biblical. then you get Dan to the north, next to them is Asher and next to them is Naphtali- the Bible does not say that Asher and Naphtali are to the north, this you have added in to make your picture valid, but it is not biblical. The result of reading the bible without adding your own views is the picture I posted back on page two. There is no cross, it is made up. Ironic how every time I prove you wrong you get mad and refuse to respond to me any more. What does that say about your character? Edited February 20, 2014 by LookingForAnswers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 20, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2014 Blessings Looking... You are very welcome,of course I am going to ask ,what kind of a Christian would I be if I did not at least try to understand your position......I will answer my own question(LOL).....It would not be the kind of Christian I hope you will see,Listen to me Looking,& if nothing else I say means anything then at least know this,,,,,,,There was not any doubt in my mind that you are Christian,that you love,fear,revere & honor God and that you know Who your Savior is,,,,,,but I could see defensiveness & some kind of wall or hurt or something(or someone)that is a point of stumbling for you & in Jesus Name my heart aches because I love you in Christ........no one can tell you because you do not agree with this or that that you don't have a relationship with Christ or that you are not saved or that you don't love the Lord.....they may have an oodles of knowledge but not one lick of Wisdom I understand exactly what you are telling me about the kind of behavior & remarks you have described (I call then the "Bible Police")& I try to make light of it but for someone like me the nit -picking ,the sarcasm& all the other "stuff" just leads me top "pray for them"......I do not seek any mans approval,only Gods & they only display their immaturity in the Lord(don't matter if they have been saved 50 or 100 years-lol0 My main concern is YOU,,,,,I take the Bible quite literally & believe every Word of it,,,,,I was not always this way but my transformation did not come ove5rnight ,although my Salvation did(Glory to God)....I do have some advice for you,listen,just listen ...& through asking the Lord that by the Power of the Holy Spirit you receive Wisdom & Understanding then you can figure out whos interpretations & opinions will be of value to you to bear good fruit & it is worth reasoning together with them.......but just love them,Child of God.....just listen & love them,,,,,, Yeah,you are always going to get a dozen different explanations of one question about a particular verse but so what,it does not matter,,,,,Jesus Christ will take you through all the Bible & reveal GodsTimeless Truth.....you WILL come to a level of maturity when you will love your brothers & sisters unconditionally and feel Churists love through them,in spite of themselves!!!!(think on that-lol) Please,put down the defensiveness & turn the other cheek,,,,perhaps you have been lead here to SHOW OTHERS how to love one another,I love you & am happy to talk abut whatever you like & you never have to agree with me about anything but Who Jesus is.............thank You for answering my question honestly & openly because now I understand,,,,,, God Bless You,,,,,,, With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 20, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,124 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,854 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2014 You could determine the year within a error margin of plus or minus 5 years If you start with Adam and put all the births deaths laid out on a spread sheet, you can get a fairly round figure. Since one can't be sure exactly how many months added to each year for the births, then you are correct in that it could be off 364 days for each generation. You could be off a plus, but I don't know about the minus part. With 800 to 900 year life cycles, I would not think that would be a huge thing. You are correct, there is no minus, force of habit from my job. It is not a huge thing unless one is trying to prove a particular year to try and make some cosmic connection. the reason I started logging them was to see who was alive all together... I find it fascinating that Lamech (Noah's father) was about 50 years old when Adam died...... and Shem lived longer than Abraham. Though the Bible doesn't record any interfacing between them I would find it very hard to think that people wouldn't keep up with Adam. Abraham was 50 years old or older when Noah died.... It makes me really wonder what Noah and Shem were doing all this time. What did Jesus do between 12 and 30..... I am in wonder a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-seeker Posted February 20, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2014 You know it's intresting that even Sir Isaac Newton realized this and was working on these very things right up until his death. Hey Shiloh, I was just curious. Is this what you consider good exegesis? clb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-seeker Posted February 20, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2014 ================================================================================ The names and their meanings are CORRECT in the slide they weren't added or twisted. Shiloh Confirmed them. On to Numbers 2 ....did ya "Get It" yet? Then Shiloh is wrong, Kenan means possession, maybe. It does not mean sorrow by any stretch. Lamech means "to make low", nothing about sorrow. I have already explained Numbers 2 to you, what about a "round about" or a "circuit" do you not understand? Let me help you out a bit... The Lord said to Moses and Aaron: 2 “The Israelites are to camp around the tent of meeting some distance from it, each of them under their standard and holding the banners of their family.” The word translated as around is sabib, which means a circuit, or round about. Nothing about a cross in there at all. Cardinal Directions are on a compass, and a compass is round. In Numbers 2, the Cardinal Directions are assigned to 4 tribes, the other tribes are NEXT to those tribes, they have no direction assigned to them. They are not behind the 4, they are NEXT to them. A straight reading of Numbers 2 would never lead anyone to think to themselves "yea, he is talking about a cross". That is an artificial reading added to fit a feeble attempt to make some cosmic connection. ======================================================================================= Last post to you Sir, Dr. Chick Missler is Certifiable by 10100000000000 LOL. And as I said, Shiloh confirmed the Names. Your 5 second Google Search is @ the heart of the problem. make some cosmic connection. Are you calling the Cross a "cosmic connection" ?? Cardinal Directions are on a compass, and a compass is round. Forgive me but..... :24: :24: The Israelites are to camp around the tent of meeting some distance from it They are AROUND IT!! Doesn't mean a circle LOL. Look @ the Picture....are the Camps "AROUND" it!!! Let me remind you.... (Hebrews 10:7) "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God." Jesus Christ is on every page in every verse!! Numbers 2: (Numbers 2:3) "And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies: and Nahshon the son of Amminadab shall be captain of the children of Judah." (Numbers 2:10) "On the south side shall be the standard of the camp of Reuben according to their armies: and the captain of the children of Reuben shall be Elizur the son of Shedeur." (Numbers 2:18) "On the west side shall be the standard of the camp of Ephraim according to their armies: and the captain of the sons of Ephraim shall be Elishama the son of Ammihud." (Numbers 2:25) "The standard of the camp of Dan shall be on the north side by their armies: and the captain of the children of Dan shall be Ahiezer the son of Ammishaddai." The 4 Camps (and Numbers): Judah--- 74,600 Reuben--- 46,500 Ephraim----40,500 Dan------62,700 Issachar--54,400 Simeon---- 59,300 Manasseh--32,200 Asher----41,500 Zebullun--57,400 Gad--------45,650 Benjamin---35,400 Naphtali--53,400 TOTALS: 186,400 151,450 108,100 157,600 LION MAN OX EAGLE The Levites Spoken of in the next Chapter are: 22,300 Large. So, to Obey the LAW and to stay on the Cardinal Directions each Camp could only go so as Wide as the Levites ONLY THE CARDINAL DIRECTIONS ARE ORDAINED!!!! The Jewish Mindset is to follow the Letter of the LAW!!! (See Cardinal Directions Above); that means NO GO for NE/NW/SE/SW. It's actually SIMPLE MATH and ATTENTION TO DETAIL....The CROSS is The Only Option!!!! Special Note: The Symbols of Each Tribe are the Same Faces of the Cherubim around the THRONE OF GOD Wait a second!!! Is Shiloh your dad? Or do you owe him money? What's with your infatuation with Shiloh? Does the scale really go: Scientific claims.....Scientific Method...................................SHILOH and SCRIPTURE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheniy Posted February 20, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 223 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) The names and their meanings are CORRECT in the slide they weren't added or twisted. Shiloh Confirmed them. You...realize I was trying to agree with you, right? I <3 Chuck Missler stuff. Anyway, did Shiloh post an explanation, or did he just say "Yes, they're right."? Because I'd be curious to see an explanation for the names I couldn't figure out. No pressure or anything. I just really want this to be real. I know that when names are given, there is usually an explanation and a meaning (see Seth). And I've heard that Methuselah's name was actually prophetic of the timing of the flood (he died right before). I can't see it in the text, though. Edited February 20, 2014 by Sheniy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 You know it's intresting that even Sir Isaac Newton realized this and was working on these very things right up until his death. Hey Shiloh, I was just curious. Is this what you consider good exegesis? clb No. I simply stated a historical fact. He thought there were codes in the Hebrew text and was doing research on it. There are volumes of his work on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheniy Posted February 20, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 223 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2014 Do your own research and look up the names in Genesis 5, they do not all mean what is claimed in your opening post. Meanings had to be either added or twisted to get to where they make that statement. This looked like a challenge! 1. Adam (Hebrew Edom) Meaning: man, mankind, "ruddy (skin)" 2. Seth (Hebrew Sheth) Meaning: Compensation Although in Gen 4:25, it looks like his name is a variation of the word shiyth, which means appoint or set 3. Enosh (hebrew 'Enowsh) Meaning: Man From similar word meaning mortal man, mankind 4. Kenan (hebrew Qeynan) Meaning: possession From another word meaning nest...not sure how they got sorrow out of this 5. Mahalalel (hebrew Mahalal'el) Meaning: boast/praise of God Also: mouthful (just kidding ) 6. Jared (hebrew Yered) Meaning: descent from the word yared meaning to go down 7. Enoch (Hebrew Chanack) Meaning: dedicated from the word chanak meaning to train, dedicate 8. Methuselah (hebrew Mĕthuwshelach) Meaning: Man of the dart ??? 9. Lamech (Hebrew Lemek) Meaning: Powerful 10: Noah (Hebrew Noach) Meaning: rest Hmm. I really thought this was true. It's close, but not quite. Anyone else have any input? What was your source? We agree on Kenan, but this one only gives dedicated for Enoch http://www.behindthename.com/name/enoch I've used that site before, but this is probably better for determining meaning in the bible. (Not the best, I'm sure, but I like it ) Names are often derived from different words. For example, Sheth came from shiyth, which means to appoint. The intended meaning is clear in the bible for this one. For Enoch, it seems to be similar. Check out the root word of Enoch in that link I posted. The name likely derived from this verb. That's what I figure, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Then Shiloh is wrong, Kenan means possession, maybe. It does not mean sorrow by any stretch. Lamech means "to make low", nothing about sorrow. No, I am not wrong. Kenan comes from a root that means to mourn or lament. In Hebrew, the verb is in Palel form. For example, in II Sam 1:17 it says the following: And David lamented (v'yak'nun doved) with this lamentation (et hakenah) over Saul and Jonathan his son, (2Sa 1:17) It is actually used twice in both verb and noun form. As a noun (kenah) it refers to a dirge. So the connectionn to sorrow is well established in connection to the name/word kenan. This is what can make Hebrew confusing to the person who isn't a Hebrew reader. It is not as simple as just looking up defintions of words. Hebrew is a very nuanced language and the verbs are particularly interesting with all of the verb stems like Hiphal, Polel, Piel, Qal, Pual, and so forth. As for Lamech, to be completely fair and honest, there are two men named Lamech in Genesis. Lamech who is the offspring of Cain in Genesis 4 was a murderer and a polygamist. In fact, he is the last son of Cain mentioned in the Bible. Lamech who is the offspring through Seth in Genesis 5 is not really mentioned in terms of his character. One thing to keep in mind with Hebrerw names is that the meaning of names change over time. Depending Missler's sources, and depending on what other modern authors uses a resources for their understanding of the names will have an effect on what you pull up when you google them. Keep in mind also that names are not "translated" the same way other words are. The names are assigned meanings, but those meanings are sometimes associational, and not an actual translation of the name. Hebrew names, like other words in Hebrew also play double duty and that is why they are assocated with certain things. The Hebrew name, "Nathan" for example is a word that is also used to mean "gift" or, "giver." So the meaning of the name is not connected with the name itself, but with how the same word is used when it is not being used as a name. So if Missler is using a source that say "Lamech" refers to being made low and another source says it means "powerful" both can be right. I don't know where Missler is getting his information, but those who claim the name means "powerful" have the same burden that Missler has. What I see happening on this thread is that someone wants Enoch 2021 to be wrong. So he will use whatever he can find to prove Enoch 2021 wrong by assuming that any information that may not exactly agree with what Enoch 2021 says is presumed automatically correct on the grounds that Enoch2021 is presumed automatically wrong at the outset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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