other one Posted February 22, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,229 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,954 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2014 OTHER ONE and there are such things as agenda's If the Jewish religious leaders of that time period had listened to Enoch's writings there would be no excuse whatsoever for them not to understand who Jesus was..... so it may well have been God himself who put the books on the back burner until we needed the information at this time..... We are told that things will be just as they were in the days of Noah just prior to Jesus coming back and so it might be a good idea to have a more in depth understanding of just what was going on. When you hear of the things that Russ Dizdar is finding in his ministry along with others and artifacts being found that seem to just go away from public view, one starts to get an understanding that there are things happening that have happened in the past and none of them are good. I see no real reason to dump the books of Enoch or a couple of others though I would not give them the stature of the bible itself....... then again when I read all the different translations of the Bible and use computer programs to go back to the original languages, I have trouble taking the Bible itself at face value for it's hard to tell which translation if any of them is actually speaking what God told the writers to say. Respectfully, because you and I do not agree on this topic, it appears you are saying that further revelation is available from God to us? That is the claim of many people but I do not find that too be so upon examination of the Bible. I maintain, that knowledge is one thing, but seeking out demonic knowledge, which, IMO, is pretty much the object of the research done by certain authors and speakers you have previously linked to in these forums, is a matter entirely forbidden to Christians by God. You make the statement that the end times will be as in the days of Noah...as per the Bible...which indeed is true. However, do you actually know what those times were like? Or, how they became that way? If satan is the god of this world, then perhaps he was the god of the world to the point where God could only find one righteous man to spare along with his family. The devil makes his ways available to those who do not take to heart the warnings in scripture concerning deception. We are gullible. The devil and his kingdom have their way with all of fallen mankind, and people, deceived IMO, come along and state that it is important to know all about the devil's schemes, evil angels masked as aliens and stupid (compared to the devil) human beings that believe they are actually evolving the earth to some ultimate state wherein certain secret groups take over and we all bow and worship? That plan, is already outlined in the Bible...it's nothing new and you do not need the book of Enoch or any other special revelation from the demonic. The serpent, in the garden of eden, tempted Eve with the promise of KNOWLEDGE and becoming like God. He approaoched with the question: Has God really said? Those who have ears to hear and eyes to see, know and UNDERSTAND, that nothing has changed and the tactics are the same. My concern, once again...as I have stated many times in these forums...is that instead of snatching the gullible and those who do not have a good basic foundation in scripture AWAY from harm, they are led and beguiled into devilish schemes designed to fool everyone....we are tottering on the precipice ... the entire world...now is the time to seek God and not devilish and wicked esoteric knowledge that, even if it is true, deceives a person into believing they are following God when in reality, the Bible tells us to have NOTHING to do with such things. This is not personal, but I believe your pursuit of these matters is dangerous. I know you do not agree. So understand then, please, that I, in good conscience, must warn others against pursing these things as God has warned in Scripture concerning deception and the fact the lawless one will perform all kinds of miracles to fool, if it were possible, even the very elect. Who among us can stand against these things without the power of God's Spirit indwelling us and holding back the evil until God Himself nods and says 'now is the time' I do not agree with your proposals Other One but that does not mean I have put my head into the ground or that I do not believe in a devil, angels or whatever other beings God may allow to bring about judgement, conviction, salvation, repentance and His kingdom ... the difference is, it is not safe to trust liars which all of these beings are. You do not ask a liar for the truth. Each time the devil came at Jesus in the wilderness, Jesus countererd his half truths and deception with "It is written"...which at that time was OT only...He did not whip out any other book or secret knowledge....He simply clung to the truth of the word of God and ......the devil left him....FOR A SEASON. So, you are trying to tell me that the book of Enoch is a work of the Devil?? So was the early church fathers who accepted it as scripture also following the devil (Athenagoras, Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus and Tertullian) You are welcome to your beliefs but I don't think I can go along with the narrowness of what you are saying when looking at the entire history of these writings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted February 23, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2014 So, you are trying to tell me that the book of Enoch is a work of the Devil?? So was the early church fathers who accepted it as scripture also following the devil (Athenagoras, Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus and Tertullian) You are welcome to your beliefs but I don't think I can go along with the narrowness of what you are saying when looking at the entire history of these writings. Actually, it's more a case of you trying to tell people that the Book of Enoch is as valid as the Bible. Do you think it is? I believe the Bible and the warnings in the Bible. I believe the words of Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted February 23, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2014 Awesome just awesome... Love, Steven (good to see you!) Thank you Steven. Nice to 'see' you too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 23, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,229 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,954 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2014 So, you are trying to tell me that the book of Enoch is a work of the Devil?? So was the early church fathers who accepted it as scripture also following the devil (Athenagoras, Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus and Tertullian) You are welcome to your beliefs but I don't think I can go along with the narrowness of what you are saying when looking at the entire history of these writings. Actually, it's more a case of you trying to tell people that the Book of Enoch is as valid as the Bible. Do you think it is? I believe the Bible and the warnings in the Bible. I believe the words of Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. I do quite often make the comment that I would not give it the same status as the Bible..... Just because I would question it as being inspired is no reason to give it no credence at all. Should we tell people that they shouldn't read Josephus? And as I said, there were some of the early church fathers that did consider it scripture and two Church groups that have always had it in their canon... so it seems to me that we should not just reject it out of hand as some seem to want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted February 23, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2014 So, you are trying to tell me that the book of Enoch is a work of the Devil?? So was the early church fathers who accepted it as scripture also following the devil (Athenagoras, Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus and Tertullian) You are welcome to your beliefs but I don't think I can go along with the narrowness of what you are saying when looking at the entire history of these writings. Actually, it's more a case of you trying to tell people that the Book of Enoch is as valid as the Bible. Do you think it is? I believe the Bible and the warnings in the Bible. I believe the words of Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. I do quite often make the comment that I would not give it the same status as the Bible..... Just because I would question it as being inspired is no reason to give it no credence at all. Should we tell people that they shouldn't read Josephus? And as I said, there were some of the early church fathers that did consider it scripture and two Church groups that have always had it in their canon... so it seems to me that we should not just reject it out of hand as some seem to want to do. Well that's good then.. however, you do seem to encourage belief in the book and others.....and that is where we part company. However, I never called the Book of Enoch a work of the devil....it may very well be...but neither of us can state with absolute authority that it is or isn't and whatever the early church fathers (and here Catholics and Protestants seem to often disagree as well) said or alluded to, may have been a harmful rather than a helpful practice. It seems the only truly authorative word we have is the one called The Bible Frankly, having read parts of it, it really seems out of place with the rest of scripture...along with the Apopcrypha and other 'books' or 'gospels', we need to remember that these books were rejected. If we try to make a case for inclusion into The Bible, then we get into the problamatical presentation of the actual 5 sections...did the writers of canonized scripture avail themselves of the entire book when they quoted or perhaps only details already accepted by them? From Wiki: Christianity[edit] References in the New Testament[edit] Enoch is referred to as a historical person and prophet, and quoted, in Jude 1:14–15: Compare this with Enoch 1:9, translated from the Ethiopic (found also in Qumran scroll 4Q204=4QEnochc ar, col I 16–18):[11] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Compare this also with what may be the original source of 1 En 1:9 in Deuteronomy 33:2:[12][13][14] And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgment upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him. Under the heading of canonicity, it is not enough to merely demonstrate that something is quoted. Instead, it is necessary to demonstrate the nature of the quotation.[15] In the case of the Jude 14 quotation of 1 Enoch 1:9, it would be difficult to argue that Jude does not quote Enoch as an historical prophet since he cites Enoch by name. However, there remains a question as to whether the author of Jude attributed the quotation believing the source to be the historical Enoch before the flood or a midrash of Deut 33:2–3.[16][17][18] The Greek text is also unusual in stating that "Enoch the Seventh from Adam" prophesied "to" (dative case) not "of" (genitive case) the men.[19][improper synthesis?] The Lord came from Sinai and dawned from Seir upon us; he shone forth from Mount Paran; he came from the ten thousands of holy ones, with flaming fire at his right hand. Peter H. Davids points to Dead Sea Scrolls evidence but leaves it open as to whether Jude viewed 1 Enoch as canon, deuterocanon, or otherwise: "Did Jude, then, consider this scripture to be like Genesis or Isaiah? Certainly he did consider it authoritative, a true word from God. We cannot tell whether he ranked it alongside other prophetic books such as Isaiah and Jeremiah. What we do know is, first, that other Jewish groups, most notably those living in Qumran near the Dead Sea, also used and valued 1 Enoch, but we do not find it grouped with the scriptural scrolls."[20] The attribution "Enoch the Seventh from Adam" is apparently itself a section heading taken from 1 Enoch (1 En 60:8, Jude 1:14a) and not from Genesis.[21] Also II Peter 2:4–5 and I Peter 3:19–20 made reference to some Enochian material.[22] So, people who know way more than I do about how to authenticate early writings in therir original languages, do not believe that the book of Enoch should be included, so, I am not going to treat it as though it should be; which, incidentally, does not prohibit a reading of it unless one is checked in their spirit. Further, and not of less import to me, is the fact that demons lie constantly and include only enough truth to bait the hook. The Bible concentrates on God and mentions the devil in passing even though we see the conflict down through the ages and both sides are pretty much displayed throughout the entire Bible. However, even though the Corinthians were 'not ignorant of the devil's schemes, accodring to Paul, they nonetheless had great need of correction regarding sin. That, is not an exception.... knowing what the devil can do does not mean a person will not experience what he can do...himself and through his demons. We are told to put on the armor and to stand against the devil's wiles...cunning tactics if you will...and frankly, I do not know of one single person who can even begin to be able to deal with those facts on their own. The flood would be evidence of that as the earth was so wicked that God repented of His creation. That was a planet persuaded by the devil, the god of this world, that rebellion against God was actually simply choosing to know truth...the devil conveniently left out the part about how knowing that truth would destroy what God had created and create a world populated by people who could choose to deny God...which was the devil's intention and what God allowed for His own purposes. So, while juggling all the above and other facts, I simply must come to the conclusion that we are not to stick our noses in the devil's business but rather walk in the light and pray for deliverance from the devil's schemes should we be so involved and if not, then prayer to be kept free of deception...which is particularly odious of course, because if you are deceived, then the only way to become not so, is to accept the truth in place of the lie. When a human being willfully opens a door into the occult or the demonic realm, I believe it is harder for them to step out then if they had been deceived or seduced by another. To summarize: Do we need to study these books in order to be aware of the devil? NOT AT ALL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 23, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,143 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,833 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2014 Blessings Everyone... Our Lord God tells us to think about Heavenly things,things above,things that are Godly & lovely....I will take Him at His Word................If knowing more about the nephilum & the fall of satan and other unGodly things would help us in some way or to grow & be more effective for His Kingdom then our Precious Lord would have told us so and He Himself would have elaborated on these things.................... It is best to be very careful what we fill ourselves with,,,,,if satan could somehow deceive one third of the angels to be cast out of Heaven along with him,while they were in Heaven,having been in the Presence of God Almighty.....does anyone really think reading a couple of books about him or the nephilum( that may or may not be God inspired) is going to give anyone an"edge".......we have all we need ,the Blood of the Lamb of God.....our Lord ,our Savior Christ Jesus Praise & Glory to God! We know what we need to know,the devil is a liar! With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldust59 Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 989 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 6 Joined: 01/08/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/13/1959 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Hi Niki23. For some further research on the nephilim, Douglas Hamp has some insightful vids on youtube. There are several other Holy Spirit filled teachers out there too. The best teacher possible though is the Holy Spirit-- ALWAYS pray for His guidance & that He gives you understanding. He will never lead you wrong! The books of Enoch, Jasher and Jubilees all speak of the races of giants(nephilim) that were produced from the fallen angels that mated with women. Blessings to you in your studies, Deb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niki23 Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/12/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/01/1989 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Thank you Golddust, I'm going to check that out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldust59 Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 989 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 6 Joined: 01/08/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/13/1959 Share Posted February 24, 2014 You're welcome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alien224 Posted February 24, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,762 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 869 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/09/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1964 Share Posted February 24, 2014 We spend so much time studying, arguing and trying to prove so many things that are really not important. Wonder what would happen if we spent as much time studying and putting into practice the Word of God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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