Proof of GOD, (without attacking Old Earth or evolution)

[jerryR34]

 

Nothing Peter had ever seen had prepared him to walk on the water. Nothing we know now would tell us we could. It took blind faith for him to do it. You are wrong.

 

 

Once again with the emoticons...sigh...very tiresome buddy.

[Tolken]

Sheniy – Post #127 is an excellent post. If one chooses to take either a verse or passage out of context it is difficult to show them the error.

 

Recently there was a discussion of Christian atrocities (Crusades, Inquisition, etc.) and someone posted Matthew 10:34 with Jesus saying “I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” to suggest that Jesus condoned such violence. As grace and faith are paramount to Christianity the understanding of their meaning and role in our lives is essential. 

[gray wolf]

Something tells me you just like to quarrel for the sake of quarreling.  I was being rather being unequivocal-- I think you misused the word above. .   not making equivalent.  What do you think?  Are we merely believers in a belief system?  I think it is more than that.  Evidence--- we have evidence and arguments.  Such makes up some of the rationale for our assent to our beliefs- -  telling us that we are being sensible and rational in what we have faith in.  I am intrigued by the idea that what Thomas saw and felt was not tantamount to proof at any rate.

[Tolken]

Gray Wolf -  I am intrigued by the idea that what Thomas saw and felt was not tantamount to proof at any rate.

 

However, we can't prove what Thomas experienced, or Peter, or anyone else in the Bible. Our assent is based on arguments that give reason for our Faith, but we can't prove it.

[Enoch2021]

Something tells me you just like to quarrel for the sake of quarreling.  I was being rather being unequivocal-- I think you misused the word above. .   not making equivalent.  What do you think?  Are we merely believers in a belief system?  I think it is more than that.  Evidence--- we have evidence and arguments.  Such makes up some of the rationale for our assent to our beliefs- -  telling us that we are being sensible and rational in what we have faith in.  

 

 

========================================================================

 

Something tells me you just like to quarrel for the sake of quarreling.

 

Well you wrote a demonstrable falsehood..."I think to find God by proofs. . . evidence with speaks to such proofs. . . that is not faith and that is not the way it is supposed to be."    

 

I was merely correcting it.  After all, I'm admonished to....

 

(2 Timothy 4:2-4) "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.  {3} For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;  {4} And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

 

It usually heads down 1 of 2 roads after People shown an error, and they are base dependent on Maturity:

 

Mature:  "Hey, your right, I was mistaken about that."  I just learned something. 

 

Immature/Paradigm defending/Pride:  "Boy all you do is want to argue".  "What's your problem?", "Faith is defined as..."  "The Basketball game...", "There is no proof",  "I don't like your tone",  "Who cut your hair"   ......Ad Nauseum. 

 

 

I think you misused the word above.

 

No, it was correct

 

 

What do you think? Are we merely believers in a belief system?

 

Well I believe Based on FAITH......Substance.  A good part of it is here:

 

I don't have "Blind Faith"......good band back in the day (steve winwood, ginger baker, clapton) until I recognized it was evil.  But I digress.

 

 

Evidence--- we have evidence and arguments.....Such makes up some of the rationale for our assent to our beliefs

 

Right, that's what I've been saying.  To have Faith, SUBSTANCE comes first or else it's "Blind"

[Enoch2021]

 I am intrigued by the idea that what Thomas saw and felt was not tantamount to proof at any rate.

 

Come again?

[gray wolf]

Let's give it a rest.  Perhaps I miscommunicated what I was trying to say.  I don't feel that I demonstrably voiced a falsehood.  I meant to say we do not have a proof to offer, just compelling reasoning.

[Enoch2021]

Let's give it a rest.  Perhaps I miscommunicated what I was trying to say.  I don't feel that I demonstrably voiced a falsehood.  I meant to say we do not have a proof to offer, just compelling reasoning.

 

=================================================================

 

You know I'm not one for resting    Besides it's not a catastrophe, I'm not asking for your first born son or anything.  We all make mistakes and are wrong occasionally (some more than others).

 

There's nothing "wrong" with that......I've learned the most when I was wrong, so I have plenty of Practice lol  I Love being proved wrong....it's a RUSH!!

 

It hasn't happen very much here, however 

 

Perhaps I miscommunicated what I was trying to say.

 

Yes, it happens.  That's why in the 2nd post, you could've said.... "Hey I mis-communicated".  That would've been the end of it,  But you didn't and this is all I was going off of (I can't read minds)....

 

"I think to find God by proofs. . . evidence with speaks to such proofs. . . that is not faith and that is not the way it is supposed to be."

 

 

I don't feel that I demonstrably voiced a falsehood.

 

Well you voiced a Falsehood (error is better I think), it's above in Green.  I then demonstrably proved it was an error.

 

 

I meant to say we do not have a proof

 

Define "Proof"?

[gray wolf]

Very well. You may have the last word. I am going to getting hit on the head lessons.

[Tolken]

Gray Wolf - Let's give it a rest.  Perhaps I miscommunicated what I was trying to say.  I don't feel that I demonstrably voiced a falsehood.  I meant to say we do not have a proof to offer, just compelling reasoning.

 

Sorry, I misunderstood you. You are correct we don't have proof we have compelling reasons for our Faith...exactly as the Bible teaches.