faith vs science.. what vs?

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

I decided to end it out of compassion because it was headed for a TrainWreck, IMHO.

 

Consider and contemplate on this for a few moments; let it marinate:

 

“Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”

Nikola Tesla

 

Nikola Tesla a "home boy", my Grandmother was born in Croatia.  Hail to the Motherland!!  LOL

 

 

You may have the final word Sir.

[lambofgod]

The ridiculous thing i found out about this argument, and I've thought about this long and hard. But from the day jesus was created and even walking the earth and creating miracles, he was still been denied of existence and even slaughtered on the cross! They had their "physical proof" right there in front of them. And yet they all turned a blind eye to it and destroyed it themselves. Does that not tell you the ignorance of "science" and the non believers and the pointlessness of trying to find "proof" for them. They didn't even believe it when it was right in front of them! So what changes that now? I believe the last days will be the ultimate test for christians and none christians alike. That, even then it describes how many wont believe what they are seeing. Thats my view of the never ending argument. (I was born and raised a Christian and baptised at 16) the point is, due to their own self fulfilment and selfishness and even fear, they will deny his word. Thats why we as. Christians must stand strong and not let it get to us. I find that the more christians argue the points to a atheist or the like, the further they themselves fall from god.

Found the right room for this post now

[Enoch2021]

The ridiculous thing i found out about this argument, and I've thought about this long and hard. But from the day jesus was created and even walking the earth and creating miracles, he was still been denied of existence and even slaughtered on the cross! They had their "physical proof" right there in front of them. And yet they all turned a blind eye to it and destroyed it themselves. Does that not tell you the ignorance of "science" and the non believers and the pointlessness of trying to find "proof" for them. They didn't even believe it when it was right in front of them! So what changes that now? I believe the last days will be the ultimate test for christians and none christians alike. That, even then it describes how many wont believe what they are seeing. Thats my view of the never ending argument. (I was born and raised a Christian and baptised at 16) the point is, due to their own self fulfilment and selfishness and even fear, they will deny his word. Thats why we as. Christians must stand strong and not let it get to us. I find that the more christians argue the points to a atheist or the like, the further they themselves fall from god.

Found the right room for this post now

 

 

=============================================================================

 

 

I disagree with some of your points.....

 

 

But from the day jesus was created and even walking the earth

 

Jesus wasn't "created" HE always WAS.....but I think you meant to say when he "Came in the Flesh"

 

 

he was still been denied of existence and even slaughtered on the cross! They had their "physical proof" right there in front of them. And yet they all turned a blind eye to it and destroyed it themselves.

 

Well I think most didn't know who HE was....They were Looking For the "Second Coming Jesus".

 

 

Does that not tell you the ignorance of "science" and the non believers and the pointlessness of trying to find "proof" for them.

 

Technically that's not "science" as we would define it.

 

I couldn't disagree with you more.  REAL "Science" has a place and is the Study of GOD IMHO.  I talked to my atheist brother for about an hour concerning various Science Topics and HE was absolutely SHOCKED...it was like turning on a Light    And Gave HIS life to the LORD a week later  

 

The conversation on this thread when you boil it down was between:  Operational/Experimental Science  vs.  Historical Science.  Operational Science requires Empirical Testing.  Historical Science while important has the potential to be corrupted and then buoy itself under the guise of the term "science" for pseudo-validation.

 

Also all Christians are admonished to....

 

(1 Thessalonians 5:21) "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

 

 

They didn't even believe it when it was right in front of them! So what changes that now? I believe the last days will be the ultimate test for christians and none christians alike. That, even then it describes how many wont believe what they are seeing. Thats my view of the never ending argument.

 

Are you saying I should stop telling the TRUTH because.... "So What changes now?".

 

IMHO, "REAL" Science is a powerful tool to discover TRUTH and is testimony to the ALMIGHTY GOD

 

 

Thats my view of the never ending argument. (I was born and raised a Christian and baptised at 16) the point is, due to their own self fulfilment and selfishness and even fear, they will deny his word.

 

 

Well here's my perspective:  that if ONE just ONE(Other than my Brother ) hears these "arguments" as you say,  and the LIGHT comes on and they find The LORD, then everything will be worth it to me.  Kapish?

 

 

I find that the more christians argue the points to a atheist or the like, the further they themselves fall from god.

 

That won't be me......LET ME ASSURE YOU!!!

 

Thanks for your concern, However.

[lambofgod]

Ok i agree i may have used the wrong terms in the way i expressed my questioning. And yes i meant when jesus was created in the flesh. He was merely create as anything else on earth at the time. And thats what i mean, they denied him when he was right in front of them. He was there in the flesh and still they chose to not see him as he was. My point is, in many cases the argument is pointless due to people wanting ti find answers that line up with their own selfufiling ideals and logic. Not of what is doctrine. Maybe in generalising am am incorrect in my assumption of the argument been pointless. I do know many that also have been saved by the "proof" of the lords existence given in a theological proofing. But many just suck you into a further game of chess that they like to play. And i do also see and hear of many christians falling away as a cause of been sucked into that game of chess. Maybe not ALL the arguments used are not completely pointless, and yes i do agree in defending gods word. But when do we draw the line at it been futile in attempt? Why don't we just say it, and just pray for them as it says in the bible? Shouldn't we humble ourselves to these kinds of arguments? Give them the tools and then leave them ti make their own choices? Is the game of chess that they play, really worth playing back? Our logic in the end to many of them, will always be fallacy to many of them.

[lambofgod]

I don't think we should stop telling the truth. But there is a point where we have to say, ok i will pray for you and hopefully you will see. What are we really saying when we try so hard to throw our proof at them? These are honest questions i would really like to know.

[lambofgod]

Would like to note. My wording for things don't always come out right. My thoughts on things often come out jumbled before even i can make sense of what I'm trying to say

[Enoch2021]

Ok i agree i may have used the wrong terms in the way i expressed my questioning. And yes i meant when jesus was created in the flesh. He was merely create as anything else on earth at the time. And thats what i mean, they denied him when he was right in front of them. He was there in the flesh and still they chose to not see him as he was. My point is, in many cases the argument is pointless due to people wanting ti find answers that line up with their own selfufiling ideals and logic. Not of what is doctrine. Maybe in generalising am am incorrect in my assumption of the argument been pointless. I do know many that also have been saved by the "proof" of the lords existence given in a theological proofing. But many just suck you into a further game of chess that they like to play. And i do also see and hear of many christians falling away as a cause of been sucked into that game of chess. Maybe not ALL the arguments used are not completely pointless, and yes i do agree in defending gods word. But when do we draw the line at it been futile in attempt? Why don't we just say it, and just pray for them as it says in the bible? Shouldn't we humble ourselves to these kinds of arguments? Give them the tools and then leave them ti make their own choices? Is the game of chess that they play, really worth playing back? Our logic in the end to many of them, will always be fallacy to many of them.

 

 

 

=============================================================================================

 

 

My point is, in many cases the argument is pointless

 

Again I disagree.  I can only speak for myself here but the argument isn't solely directed @ the addressee. I write it for the droves of "Quiet Lurkers" that view these threads that may be on the fence.

 

This particular one was only based on the Tenets of "Science".....and I already know Tristen is a Christian

 

 

due to people wanting ti find answers that line up with their own selfufiling ideals and logic. Not of what is doctrine.

 

Well I would agree to a point but if you expose these ideas for what they are through either "bad" science or logic errors.....they might not see them immediately but it could lay the groundwork for an eventual "Light On" moment down the road.  Most aren't anywhere near a Bible  or "Doctrine" so that point is moot from the start.

 

We are admonished to Expose Evil and False Ideas ....

 

(Ephesians 5:11) "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."

 

 

But many just suck you into a further game of chess that they like to play.

 

That's like bringing the pigeons to the cat.  And it's Impossible (if you are Armed) why?  Well GOD'S WORD is ABSOLUTE TRUTH......therefore; anything that contradicts GOD'S WORD is a LIE.  

 

They're already in CheckMate before the conversation begins.  I've found a large percentage wouldn't know what science was if it landed on their head and whistled dixie..... but they use the term "science" rather clumsily to justify their behavior and/or lead people astray.

 

 

And i do also see and hear of many christians falling away as a cause of been sucked into that game of chess.

 

I don't see it....and more importantly, it will not have any impact to me personally

 

 

But when do we draw the line at it been futile in attempt?

 

Again, I tailor most responses not to the addressee but to the droves of "Quiet Lurkers" that just view and don't post.  I have never personally got into a face to face argument of the magnitude and detail here....because I agree, that in most cases.... would be futile.

 

Why don't we just say it, and just pray for them as it says in the bible? Shouldn't we humble ourselves to these kinds of arguments?

 

Say What?

 

Some may need a little more background, and.............

 

(Luke 8:16) " No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light."

 

 

Our logic in the end to many of them, will always be fallacy to many of them.

 

See responses above

 

 

What are we really saying when we try so hard to throw our proof at them?

 

They're not "My Proofs"  I just try to illuminate....

 

(Romans 1:20) "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

 

 

Would like to note. My wording for things don't always come out right. My thoughts on things often come out jumbled before even i can make sense of what I'm trying to say

 

No worries.

[lambofgod]

Well Enoch, thanks for shedding that light on it I have a better perspective on it now.

[lambofgod]

Sometimes I am not sure myself how to take it when I am challenged and find it tiresome. But I guess it depends on the context and situation.

[jerryR34]

The ridiculous thing i found out about this argument, and I've thought about this long and hard. But from the day jesus was created and even walking the earth and creating miracles, he was still been denied of existence and even slaughtered on the cross! They had their "physical proof" right there in front of them. And yet they all turned a blind eye to it and destroyed it themselves. Does that not tell you the ignorance of "science" and the non believers and the pointlessness of trying to find "proof" for them. They didn't even believe it when it was right in front of them! So what changes that now? I believe the last days will be the ultimate test for christians and none christians alike. That, even then it describes how many wont believe what they are seeing. Thats my view of the never ending argument. (I was born and raised a Christian and baptised at 16) the point is, due to their own self fulfilment and selfishness and even fear, they will deny his word. Thats why we as. Christians must stand strong and not let it get to us. I find that the more christians argue the points to a atheist or the like, the further they themselves fall from god.

Found the right room for this post now

to carry this a step farther, just think about how many miracles the Jewish people saw in Egypt and on their Exodus etc., and they still wanted to worship a golden calf...