Stolen Treasures from legalism

[Guest Butero]

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear; because fear hath torment:  He that feareth is not made perfect in love."

 

Either way, are you living your life based on fear or based on love?

 

 

2 Corinthians 5

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge , that if one died for all, then were all dead : 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again . 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away ; behold , all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

 

When faced with bad drivers, what if your focus was, "Lord, because You love me, and because You love them, fill me with Your love for them that Your love reign in me!" rather than, "Lord, the devil is tempting me to sin against You; save me from Your wrath,"?

I guess whatever works for you Nebula.  I may consider that advise and see if it works for me.  You never know. 

[Guest Butero]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do you do with the following verse?

 

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

 

First of all, I reject the translation you used, and turn to my KJV Bible.  It doesn't say the same thing. 

 

1 John 4:18  There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear; because fear hath torment:  He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 

 

Notice the difference.  Your translation says "because fear involves punishment," and mine says, "because fear hath torment."  I know yours can't be right, because I can give examples of punishment for disobedience.  The key is "perfect love."  If I love God and am truly in a right relationship with him, I have no fear.  I am walking with God in my daily life, and I am not afraid of anything.  I am not fearful right now.  On the other hand, if I choose to cheat on my wife tonight, or in anger, kill a man, I am not walking in perfect love.  Fear enters the picture. 

 

 

From Strongs concordance

 

Lexicon :: Strong's G2851 - kolasis

κόλασις

Transliteration

kolasis

Pronunciation

ko'-lä-sēs (Key)

Part of Speech

feminine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

From κολάζω (G2849)

Dictionary Aids

Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry

TDNT Reference: 3:816,451

Trench's Synonyms: vii. τιμωρία, κόλασις.

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. correction, punishment, penalty

 

Kolasis is used twice in the NT.  In the KJV, :

The KJV translates Strongs G2851 in the following manner: punishment (1x), torment (1x).

 

 

So, I will stand by the verse as I quoted it. Clearly, punishment is a proper and acceptable translation of the Greek word.

 

A child who does something terribly wrong, worries about their parents reactions and might feel shame, but if they have been raised in love, they do not fear rejection. Why, because perfect love castes out fear. If a child has been raise by the law and punishment,  they were not raised in love, and will fear.  This idea is repeated in the OT and the NT. While children of God are trained, they are not in fear of punishment/torment, because they are trained in love.

 

  Hebrews 12:5-11 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?

 

You asked me what I do with that verse.  You can stand on your translation all day, but I only accept the KJV Bible, and so my answer to you is, I throw your translation out the window.  I don't accept it.  I dismiss it.  You can believe and use whatever you want, but I dismiss it because of the translation.  If you want me to consider a verse of scripture, it must be what is stated in the KJV Bible.  If I see they don't agree, I reject it.   

 

That is an interesting choice of passages you used from Hebrews.  Why would God chastise someone?  What exactly does chastisement mean?  It is punishment, so if your translation were correct, it contradicts this passage.  Why do you discipline your children?  So they won't do wrong.  They will fear punishment.  I stated I fear God's punishment and you didn't seem to like that, so what do you do?  You give me a scripture that states God punishes his children when they disobey him.  How am I supposed to react to his chastisement or punishment?  Am I supposed to shrug it off, or learn from it, realizing my sins have consequences?  If I don't want punishment, I shouldn't sin. 

 

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:  Fear God, and keep his commandments:  for this is the whole duty of man.  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.  Ecclesiastes 12:13,14

 

BTW, what do you say to Ananias and Saphira?  They come across to me as children that didn't have proper fear of God. 

 

I'll start with you questions first.

 

When a Father who loves His children chastizes, it is for the purpose of correcting and teaching, not as judgement and condemning. It is a blessing to help one grow into the person they should be. There is no fear, but rather the recognition of a Father who is there to help. Uncomfortable yes, but the love bond operates.

 

Scripture tells us about Ananias and Saphira. They were liars and lied to the Holy Spirit. They were not chastized as children of God, but instead condemned. Did they not fear the Lord? True, but those who are lost often do not fear God.

 

Now a question for you for clarification. There are several differing views among KJV onliests. Where do you fit?

 

1.KJV is the best translation

2. The Textus Receptus is the preserved word of God

3. The KJV translators were inspired by God during the translation, equal to the original manuscripts in the original languages

4. The KJV is inspired and revealed and corrects all other original manuscripts in the original languages

 

I have no reason to believe Ananias and Saphira were any different than any other Christians who happened to sin.  The Bible doesn't say they were unbelievers.  They were part of the church.

 

As far as your question goes, I am closest to number 2, but in many ways, I also fall into the category of number 3 in that I believe God did inspire the translators to use the best corresponding English word in every instance.  I just recognize there are times where you can't find an English word that fully expresses the original Greek word.