CCCI and Lordship Salvation?

[OldSchool2]

"The original 'salvation' message of Bill Bright and CCCI (especially on their tracts) was: The problem with mankind is that we have 'put ourselves on the throne of our life.' Then their solution is to 'take self off and put Jesus on the throne of our life.' That sounds almost like an early version of Lordship 'salvation' doesn’t it? ..."

http://expreacherman.com/2011/08/25/campus-crusade-gone-awry/

 

Yes, it does, but the Christian life is one of sanctification that follows, not preceeds, salvation.

Note all the bold/italicized references below in this brief essay by CCCI founder Bright from Time With God:

"In recent decades the phrase 'easy believism' has surfaced.

Unfortunately, it describes a large number of contemporary Christians who have

received Christ as Savior but do not, in practice, regard Him as Lord.

They seem to have received Him in order to reach heaven some-day or

to get help for their problems, but they have never fully committed

to trust, obey, honor and serve Him as a way of life.

Our Lord never intended that we be His casual acquaintances. He

wants us to be His disciples, fully dedicated to following Him and

lifting up His holy name to the world ... Our Lord is repulsed by

mediocre commitment ...

When we acknowledge Christ as our Lord, we affirm that He is our

Master for life and that we are dedicated to serving and glorifying

Him. In all things, large and small, our deepest desire is to do what

our Lord would want us to do. We ask for His guidance--not for our

gain, but for His glory. We discipline ourselves in studying and

obeying His written Word. We proclaim His love to the world around us.

We try to think, speak and act in a way that will attract others to

Him.

The misguided person who thinks all this is too difficult or

irrelevant misses the point. The Christian life is far more than a fire

escape from hell; it is the life of submission and obedience which

result in joy and victory."

 

IMO, it's not a matter of difficulty, but of putting the sanctification cart before the "prime mover".

 

BTW, years ago CCCI dropped "Christ" and changed it's named to Cru in order to appeal to more students.

[Willa]

I was saved when I was in the 8th grade--around 1957-8. When I was baptized I confessed having received Jesus as my Savior and Lord, but I did not understand anything about surrendering my life to Him and was given no teaching. I thought Lord was an English title. I had not bowed to Him in my heart and did not even know He is God--only that He is God's Son. I had been led by the Holy Spirit to repent, and I knew God had forgiven me because Jesus loves me.

Then I backslid when I was 18 and did not return to the Lord til Campus Crusade brought me back on track. in 1969.

My disagreement with Campus Crusade was that their 4 spiritual laws said nothing about confessing one's sinfulness to God and repenting. When using them this was the most frequently asked question. Billy Graham's steps to peace with God covered that much better. The present CCU booklet How to know God also does a very good job.

But it was their Holy Spirit booklet that opened my eyes. It showed me that because I was not living a Christ centered life I was missing out on the joy and blessings of living for Christ. I was a carnal, worldy Christian. "How to Know God" brings people to Christ. So I fail to understand the complaint. The Holy Spirit booklet is also now part of the 5 principles of Christion growth which is a follow up Bible study for those who have received Christ. It is in the chapter or booklet called The Christ Controlled life. It explains how we can surrender areas of our life that we have not submitted to God and to look for His answers in the Bible. I didn't even understand till then that I could do such a thing, and doing so was the foundation to my learning to walk by faith in God's Word. It taught that we can allow Christ to live in us and love others through us when we do not have the ability to do so in ourselves. God started to lead me by His Spirit after that, which had not happened since I was first saved. I had been derailed by trying to lead the Christian life in my own strength instead of surrendering troublesome areas to God and seaking His answers in His Word. This led to my complete surrender to Him, acknowledging that I just make a mess of my life in my own wisdom and strength, and His way works. So I entered the Sabboth rest and ceased from my works as God did from His. I learned to trust in His grace.

This shows no necessity of obeying God to be saved or even of obeying God to prove our salvation.

A Christ centered life does produce fruit--love joy, peace patience etc. Simply because it allows Christ to live in us. Apart from the vine we cannot yield good fruit. John 15:1-8 But Christ living in us cannot help but yield good fruit.

Look up CRU for yourself. At the top of the page you will find "How to Know God" as one topic to open, and the next is "Train and Grow." That is where I found "The Christ Controlled Life".

My only objection is the tedium of reading through his notes till the last few paragrphs before "the natural man".

Please explain how you disagree with this. Where is the error?. It has proved to be the best training I ever had in how to walk with God. It has completely freed me from legalism and self effort. I cannot comprehend the objection. I received a "second blessing" when I surrendered to God and was filled with His Spirit. But all was subsequent to my salvation. It came as a simple sinking into His will.

[OldSchool2]

I was saved when I was in the 8th grade--around 1957-8. When I was baptized I confessed having received Jesus as my Savior and Lord, but I did not understand anything about surrendering my life to Him and was given no teaching. I thought Lord was an English title. I had not bowed to Him in my heart and did not even know He is God--only that He is God's Son. I had been led by the Holy Spirit to repent, and I knew God had forgiven me because Jesus loves me.

Then I backslid when I was 18 and did not return to the Lord til Campus Crusade brought me back on track. in 1969.

My disagreement with Campus Crusade was that their 4 spiritual laws said nothing about confessing one's sinfulness to God and repenting. When using them this was the most frequently asked question. Billy Graham's steps to peace with God covered that much better. The present CCU booklet How to know God also does a very good job.

But it was their Holy Spirit booklet that opened my eyes. It showed me that because I was not living a Christ centered life I was missing out on the joy and blessings of living for Christ. I was a carnal, worldy Christian. "How to Know God" brings people to Christ. So I fail to understand the complaint. The Holy Spirit booklet is also now part of the 5 principles of Christion growth which is a follow up Bible study for those who have received Christ. It is in the chapter or booklet called The Christ Controlled life. It explains how we can surrender areas of our life that we have not submitted to God and to look for His answers in the Bible. I didn't even understand till then that I could do such a thing, and doing so was the foundation to my learning to walk by faith in God's Word. It taught that we can allow Christ to live in us and love others through us when we do not have the ability to do so in ourselves. God started to lead me by His Spirit after that, which had not happened since I was first saved. I had been derailed by trying to lead the Christian life in my own strength instead of surrendering troublesome areas to God and seaking His answers in His Word. This led to my complete surrender to Him, acknowledging that I just make a mess of my life in my own wisdom and strength, and His way works. So I entered the Sabboth rest and ceased from my works as God did from His. I learned to trust in His grace.

This shows no necessity of obeying God to be saved or even of obeying God to prove our salvation.

A Christ centered life does produce fruit--love joy, peace patience etc. Simply because it allows Christ to live in us. Apart from the vine we cannot yield good fruit. John 15:1-8 But Christ living in us cannot help but yield good fruit.

Look up CRU for yourself. At the top of the page you will find "How to Know God" as one topic to open, and the next is "Train and Grow." That is where I found "The Christ Controlled Life".

My only objection is the tedium of reading through his notes till the last few paragrphs before "the natural man".

Please explain how you disagree with this ...

I disagree with this:

"... The misguided person who thinks all this is too difficult or

irrelevant misses the point. The Christian life is far more than a fire

escape from hell; it is the life of submission and obedience which

result in joy and victory."

But Lordship Sal makes sanctification a prerequisite for salvation, i.e., exactly how submissive and obedient do you have to be before you can approach Jesus for salvation?

[Willa]

I don't think CRU teaches that obedience is necessary for salvation or anything like entire sanctification or lordship salvation.. It just teaches that we reap God's blessing and joy when we walk in the Spirit. If you went to their site as I suggested you will find that they lead a person to Christ through the sinner's prayer and faith in God's word. They then disciple people as how to get the most joy out of the abundant life Jesus promises--by walking in the Spirit according to Romans 8. It has no bearing on our salvation which was previously established. It teaches freedom from legalism and the pit of self effort.

Someone is trying to give CCU a bad name and cast suspicion on a very excellent ministry. The words were twisted to mean something never taught there at all, and are pulled out of context.

Surely you do not believe we are supposed to lead a self centered life after being saved? CCU teaches how to lead a Christ centered life after salvation so as to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[OldSchool2]

I don't think CRU teaches that obedience is necessary for salvation or anything like entire sanctification or lordship salvation ...

The excerpt by CCCI founder Bright from Time With God strongly suggests otherwise.

[Atwood]

"Lordship Salvation" is one of my pet peeves. How many times does the Bible offer salvation, asking only one thing of the human to get the new birth: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved. Believe, have faith is the one and only thing a man must do to be saved. One thing a man does not have to do is to promise to obey Christ, promise to do good works. Having said that, there is but one Savior who must be the object of faith, that is God-the-Son, the second person of the Triune God; He Who became a man, went to the cross, paid for our sins, and rose from the dead. It is no pretended "Jesus" who can save. If you know an immigrant from Honduras, whose name is Jesús (nickname "Chewy"), trusting that man won't save you. You have to have Jesus defined sufficiently well as the object of faith -- Michael the Archangel won't cut it. One thing that is essential in defining the object of our faith is that Jesus is LORD in the King James spelling; that is, we must define Him as the Tetragrammaton of the OT, Yahweh; Jehovah in some translations. When the Bible says that "whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved" as in Romans 10:13, in context "LORD" is Jesus; but this is an OT quote from Joel where "LORD" is Yahweh. Thus the Jesus we call on for salvation must be defined as very God in our minds. --------- I think that most of the Lordship salvation people misunderstand the use of Lord in salvation context when it speaks of the object of our faith, the Lord Jesus. The issue is not that He is Adonai (boss, master, lord as over slaves), but that He is Yahweh, very God. ------------------ Thus my fear about the Lordship salvation message is that it teaches salvation by works, telling us that we must promise to submit to Jesus and to obey Him to be saved (works). This is something different from just defining Him as GOD with all the sovereign implications which follow that definition. From man's side, salvation is easy-believe-ism; from God's side it meant a great amount of hard work, particularly on the cross suffering for our sins. And the fact that it is "easy-believe" makes the gospel repulsive to the pride of man, who wants to be accepted for works, not by grace; for being saved by grace suggests that the person saved is so depraved that he cannot earn his way. Grace is an affront to the pride of man. ------------------ Now having said that, it still should be acknowledged that there is a constant demand upon man that he submit to the Lordship of Christ. This is a demand that no unsaved person fulfills; this is a demand that exists in the middle of an evangelistic message; this is a demand that exists during an altar call; this is a demand on us all at all times. Therefore, I do not object to an evangelist calling persons to trust the Lord Jesus as Savior and to accept Him as Lord also. Only no hint must be made that obedience brings salvation, nor that commitment to obedience brings salvation. I have no objection to the cry going out: "This night, accept the Lord Jesus as your Savior and Lord." Notwithstanding, "accept" is not Biblical language for securing salvation either; "receive" is used once, and further defined as believing in John 1:12.

[Atwood]

Williiamina posted:

"My disagreement with Campus Crusade was that their 4 spiritual laws said nothing about confessing one's sinfulness to God and repenting."

Yes, I think some emphasis should be given to sin and acknowledging sinfulness. However, the Bible offers salvation over and over to men just for believing or having faith. John 3:16 does not say, "that whosoever admits he is a sinner and believes in Him." What shall I do to be saved? In Acts it does not say, "Confess your sins and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." But one thing is required for salvation over and over. We should not think we can improve God's plan of salvation. ----------------

Nevertheless, trusting Christ as Savior implies that one is convicted of being a sinner, as having a Savior is having a Savior from sin. So our sin is implicit in having faith in a Savior.

A few times in the Bible, "repent" is a condition of salvation. But it must be understood in the context of the many, many offers of salvation just for believing. The repentance which saves is a change of mind. The primary term for repent in the Greek New Testament means change of mind, not being sorry for sin primarily. It is not sorrow for sin and turning over a new leaf which saves. It is having a change of mind from not-trusting Christ to trusting Christ as Savior. Thus saving repentance is not something different from belief or faith.

Since "repent" in English brings up thoughts about being sorry for doing something and turning over a new leaf, one should be careful about using this term without explanation.

BTW, I have had positive feelings about Campus Crusade for many years while understanding that like us all, it had its shortcomings.

[Willa]

So your are opposed to our commiting our lives to Him and a lifestyle of serving Him?

Are you opposed to our becoming disciples and do you want us to remain carnal babes in Christ?

Do you want us to avoid reading the Bible and be Sunday hearers of God's word but not doers?

Are we to be rebels and never enjoy the blessings of obeying Him?

Haven't you ever made Jesus your Lord? You may be saved if you only made Him your Savior and know the joy of being forgiven. But you have missed of the joy of living the Christian life.

I see nothing in this quotation that suggests lordship salvation. I also read your reference twice. Since it was 1969-1970 that I also was blessed by Campus Crusade, it would have been at the same time as the article referred to.

My Baptist church found nothing wrong with their doctrine and supported their missionaries.

My Lutheran church hosted the conference I attended but then objected to it because it led people to personally receive Christ as their Savior. THEY BELIEVED IN SALVATION BY INFANT BAPTISM. IS THAT WHAT YOU BELIEVE?.

Bill Bright was a presbyterian who graduated from Fuller Theological Seminary. Even Billy Graham praised him for his integrity and devotion to Christ, saying that he was an inspiration to him.

Please tell me what you do believe that you find his message so objectionable. As many times as I have read it I do not find it to advocate lordship salvation or any salvation by works. They have always based salvation on trusting God's word rather than feelings.

They have only advocated walking in the Spirit as a means of having a fulfilling, abundant life. Do you oppose this and advocate walking according to the flesh instead?

I am very familiar with their literature and have only heard of lordship salvation or entire sanctification since joining this forum. I cannot agree with salvation by works of any kind. The Lutheran Church and CRU delivered me from that bondage and herecy..

I vehemantly disagree with your conclusions.

[Willa]

Williiamina posted:

"My disagreement with Campus Crusade was that their 4 spiritual laws said nothing about confessing one's sinfulness to God and repenting."

Yes, I think some emphasis should be given to sin and acknowledging sinfulness. However, the Bible offers salvation over and over to men just for believing or having faith. John 3:16 does not say, "that whosoever admits he is a sinner and believes in Him." What shall I do to be saved? In Acts it does not say, "Confess your sins and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." But one thing is required for salvation over and over. We should not think we can improve God's plan of salvation. ----------------

Nevertheless, trusting Christ as Savior implies that one is convicted of being a sinner, as having a Savior is having a Savior from sin. So our sin is implicit in having faith in a Savior.

A few times in the Bible, "repent" is a condition of salvation. But it must be understood in the context of the many, many offers of salvation just for believing. The repentance which saves is a change of mind. The primary term for repent in the Greek New Testament means change of mind, not being sorry for sin primarily. It is not sorrow for sin and turning over a new leaf which saves. It is having a change of mind from not-trusting Christ to trusting Christ as Savior. Thus saving repentance is not something different from belief or faith.

Since "repent" in English brings up thoughts about being sorry for doing something and turning over a new leaf, one should be careful about using this term without explanation.

BTW, I have had positive feelings about Campus Crusade for many years while understanding that like us all, it had its shortcomings.

This was the problem that other people had with the 4 spiritual laws. I had no problem with it but I was already saved. I agree fully that repentace is a changed mind. In fact, it is referred to as a gift from God in several places.. I believe entirely that salvation is by grace though faith, and even that is a gift from God. We wholly lean on God's grace.

[OldSchool2]

So your are opposed to our commiting our lives to Him and a lifestyle of serving Him?

Are you opposed to our becoming disciples and do you want us to remain carnal babes in Christ?

Do you want us to avoid reading the Bible and be Sunday hearers of God's word but not doers?

Are we to be rebels and never enjoy the blessings of obeying Him?

Haven't you ever made Jesus your Lord? ...

We can't "make" Jesus what He already is.

I am opposed to putting preconditions to the salvation freely offered through grace -- and according to his epistles, I strongly believe St. Paul would vehemently oppose those preconditions at as well.

In plain English, it should be obvious that a life of service and discipleship follows, not precedes, salvation and to insist otherwise is a Catch-22: To be saved you must make Jesus Lord, but you can only make Him Lord if you are saved.

"The Wycliffe Bible Dictionary seems to understand what Lordship Salvation advocates do not; 'While transformation of life is not the ground for salvation, it is the evidence of salvation ...'"

http://www.dtl.org/salvation/article/guest/lordship-1.htm