Personal Finance from a Christian Perspective?

[GoldenEagle]

I would add one thing: the Psalms also say that the Heavens are the Lord's but the Earth He has given to the children of men. Therefore, by right of creation God does own everything, as His Word says, but in the same manner as you will one day let your child drive your car that you own, so God has given us the Earth (otherwise, we would have to say that God is letting Satan run the Earth and use His resources to do bad stuff).

Where does the Bible say the Heavens are the Lord's but the Earth He has given to the children of men? Curious.

Is God not allowing Satan to do bad stuff with what is in the Earth? Fascinating.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

God is faithful to replace that which i have shared with others or given back to Him. It is more like Malachi 3:11, in that He seems to reduce those emergency expenses such as vet. bills or auto repairs. We don't get rich, but I am not in want.

One of my priorities is seeing that our grandkids go to church camp, retreats, or ministry opportunities. That is my way of sewing to the future. They need to know how much fun they can have in Christ, as opposed to the world's fun, and what a blessing it is to serve God.

I try to give to the poor when I see a need, especially Bibles to the poor in other lands. Sometimes I gave an opportunity for income, such as a goat or 2, or I have contributed toward bathrooms and wells in India that were not available to outcasts or lepers. But only as God led me and as my hubby approves or suggests. Right now I am looking for a home for some new shoes--my feet grew (arches fell) so that I can't wear some I bought on sale in advance. Illness kept my old ones from wearing out so now there are extra. I am waiting on God for direction.

We are not physically able to give of ourselves or our labor much anymore due to our own disabilities. We can't be depended upon to serve in church, for instance, which we have done in the past. So we have to ask how God wants us to serve Him now.

Blessings,

Willa

 

 

I believe that God does provide for our needs. Determing what people consider needs vs wants is tricky. And when God doesn't respond as they want Him to some get dissapointed.

That's great that you are investing in your grandkids spiritual lives and future.

Giving to the poor is a good thing sister.

God provides opportunities for us every day. We just need to open our eyes and rely on the Holy Spirit.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

Hot news flash! God is so good! Our church does not have a "closet " to give the poor clothing, but I just called them only to learn that a group from our church is collecting shoes to give to the poor on a missions trip! They have been set aside for a year, waiting on God's direction. He is so cool.

Praise God!

He is indeed very cool. He is awesome!

[FreeinChrist]

 

So GE, are you saying that Luke 6:38, is not about money, but rather having a forgiving spirit to others?

 

Not sure where I stand on the tithing, but what do you think of the passage in Hebrews 7?

 

 

Re: Luke 6:38... What do you think this passage is talking about brother?

 

Luke 6:37-42

Judging Others

³⁷ “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; ³⁸ give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

³⁹ He also told them a parable: “Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? ⁴⁰ A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. ⁴¹ Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? ⁴² How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye.

God bless,

GE

 

 

I see this as referring to the Believer not judging others but remembering that we all are sinners in need of mercy.  The more mercy we show to others the more God will give us, James 2:11-13.

 

@19Duggarfan... Re: Hebrews 7... What stands out to you in that chapter? I linked it as it is a bit long to post here.

 

Speaking of Melchizedek, the priesthood we are called into it states:

4)  Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the Patriarch Abraham gave the tithe of the spoils.

5)  For verily they which receive the office of the Priesthood, have a commandment to take according to the Law, tithes of the people (that is, of their brethren), thought they came out of the lions of Abraham.

6)  But he whose kindred is not counted among them, received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

7)  And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the greater.

8)  And here men that die, receive tithe: but there He receiveth them of whom it is witnessed, that He liveth.

9)  And to say as the thing is, Levi, also which receiveth tithes, payeth tithes in Abraham.

I just really am not sure if we should do away with the tithe after reading this portion of Hebrews 7.  For the Book of Hebrews compares the Aaronic Priesthood of the Jews, to the New Covenant Priesthood of Jesus Christ likening it to the Priesthood of Melchizedek.  And we see that even Aaron though the lions of Abraham gave unto Melchizedek.  And when I see verse 6 and 7 especially the fact that the only Priest that it is witness to that He liveth is Jesus Christ our High Priest and Saviour, God delight in doing His minister of the Gospel good, and states they are worthy of their wages, I Timothy 5:18.

So at less the Christians I believe should give a tenth, but some believe in giving even more.  Don't forget Jesus comment to the religious leaders in Matthew 23:23.

 

[GoldenEagle]

 

I see this as referring to the Believer not judging others but remembering that we all are sinners in need of mercy.  The more mercy we show to others the more God will give us, James 2:11-13.

 

........

 

 

Speaking of Melchizedek, the priesthood we are called into it states:

4)  Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the Patriarch Abraham gave the tithe of the spoils.

5)  For verily they which receive the office of the Priesthood, have a commandment to take according to the Law, tithes of the people (that is, of their brethren), thought they came out of the lions of Abraham.

6)  But he whose kindred is not counted among them, received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

7)  And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the greater.

8)  And here men that die, receive tithe: but there He receiveth them of whom it is witnessed, that He liveth.

9)  And to say as the thing is, Levi, also which receiveth tithes, payeth tithes in Abraham.

I just really am not sure if we should do away with the tithe after reading this portion of Hebrews 7.  For the Book of Hebrews compares the Aaronic Priesthood of the Jews, to the New Covenant Priesthood of Jesus Christ likening it to the Priesthood of Melchizedek.  And we see that even Aaron though the lions of Abraham gave unto Melchizedek.  And when I see verse 6 and 7 especially the fact that the only Priest that it is witness to that He liveth is Jesus Christ our High Priest and Saviour, God delight in doing His minister of the Gospel good, and states they are worthy of their wages, I Timothy 5:18.

So at less the Christians I believe should give a tenth, but some believe in giving even more.  Don't forget Jesus comment to the religious leaders in Matthew 23:23.

 

 

 

I agree brother that Luke 6:38 in context seems to be about sinners in need of mercy.  Particularly how we as followers of Christ are to forgive and love those around us. Sometimes it’s easier to do than others. And James 2:11-13 goes along with that.    

Re: Hebrews 7

As I understand it the tithe was meant to support the tribe of Levi. The tribe of Levi was tasked or set apart by God to minister in the temple.  I don’t know that this passage is pointing to tithing for the Believer.  However, it does point to Abraham’s generosity towards Melchizedek. And subsequently our generosity in giving as Believers.

There is no mention of a tithe until Abraham in the Bible. There is no record of Adam, Abel, Cain, Job, or any of Abraham’s predecessors tithing.  Abraham in Gen. 14:17-20 gave a thanksgiving offering to God of what he plundered on behalf of the people who had been miraculously rescued.  In other words Abraham gave away 10% of other people’s captured goods. From the passage we can see Abraham didn’t tithe on what he already owned but on the spoils of war.

 

Tithing too was not a conditional act as referenced in Genesis 28:20-22. Jacob made a vow to God for safe passage, food, and clothing. Notice the term “If God will be with me…” Jacob uses. It’s an “if… then” proposition.

 

The tithe, different from what is mentioned in Genesis 14 and Hebrews 7, was given as instruction to Israel and was from what a person earned: Lev. 27:30; Deut. 14:22-23,28; 2 Chron.31:5-6 

Numbers 18:21-24 shows that the tithe was given by the Lord to the Levite tribe of Israel. It was a tax if you will for the nation of Israel to support the Temple (precurser was the tent) and the workers of the Temple. In Lev. 27:30-32 the Jews were told to give a tithe to the Lord according to Levitical law. In Deut. 14:22-23 the tithe was given as instruction to Israel (Jews) based on what the land yielded (their earnings). Particularly the wine, grain, oil, and flocks. In 2 Chron. 31:5-6 the people of Israel gave in abundance of the first fruits of grain, wine, oil, honey, the produce of the field, and their flocks.

We are told in 1 Cor. 10:32 that there are Jews, Gentiles, and the Church.  The law of the tithe was given exclusively to the Jewish people as observed in the passages above. Of note no Gentiles were given the law of the tithe. Also of note the Church was not given the law of the tithe either. The Jews are those who descended from Abraham , Isaac, Jacob, and the twelve tribes of Israel.  Since this post is getting long I'll post the rest in a 2nd post. For now this is a lot to chew on and can discuss.  

 

Remember too that in Matthew 23 Jesus was pronouncing woes to Jews - Scribes and Pharisees. These particular Jews weren't Believers but were trying to earn their salvation through the law and doing good works. Jesus particularly in verse 23 was pointing out that the Scrives and Pharisees were tithing (works) but there wasn't heart change (justice, mercy, heart change). Jesus was pointing out the Scribes and Pharisees holiness was just lip service from sinners and not true worship towards God from someone who was redeemed - they needed a Savior.

That said I do believe Scripture points to the Believer giving joyfully.  There is no specific number for the Christian but instead whatever God lays on our heart. Typically, this can be significantly more than 10%. God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Cor. 9:7)  

What do you think brother?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

Amen to that. God has never failed, not once, to prove that to me! 

 

Mal_3:10  Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. 

 

See, Tithing is never mentioned once in the OP.

I think this passage and others are taken out of context. I don't believe God's blessings or lack there of depend on my actions. But I'd like to explore this further brother with you or anyone else if you'd like?

God bless,

GE

 

 

Many teachers and preachers have used Malachi 3:9-10 to scare people into giving to the local church. In context, verse 9 refers to the “whole nation” or the nation of Israel.  When Malachi was written (around 445 BC) Israel had rejected God and fallen into idolatry.  Remember from the previous post above God gave the tithes as a way for the tribe of Levi to live off of? So Israel wasn’t taking care of a whole tribe and neglecting the Temple of God!

To me it’s almost like some people want to bargain with God. Some say “Give to God’s work and you’ll be blessed.”  I don't see this happening in Scripture plus there's no guarantee of wealth in this life.  I think in some ways this passage in Malachi is no more relevant to the Church than the command to offer up animal sacrifices.  The storehouses mentioned in this passage were adjoining to the temple in Jerusalem where Jews and Gentiles alike brought their field produce and flocks for sacrifice.  The temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70 by the Romans after several revolts by the Jewish people.  

Some even go so far as to say that if you don’t tithe God will cause you to get sick, loose jobs, lose money, incur doctor bills, and incur hospital bills.  As if God would curse Christians who don't give 10% or more.

Giving to God should be for the Believer out of joy and a grateful heart for what He has done.  Not a demand as some have the habit of doing.  Again, God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Cor. 9:7)

What do you think brother?

God bless,

GE

[FreeinChrist]

Not really sure what to think.  I just see the Church being commanded to tithe in Hebrews 7:8.  I have somewhat of a clear understanding of where you are coming from; just not sure if I agree or not.  But from the term as God hath prospered him, I see a reference to the tithe.

 

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

I Corinthians 16:2

[GoldenEagle]

Not really sure what to think.  I just see the Church being commanded to tithe in Hebrews 7:8.  I have somewhat of a clear understanding of where you are coming from; just not sure if I agree or not.  But from the term as God hath prospered him, I see a reference to the tithe.

 

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

I Corinthians 16:2

 

Another verse that is taken out of context I believe brother is 1 Cor. 16:2.

Look at 16:2 in context of the rest of the passage:

1 Cor. 16:2

Now concerning the collection for the saints: as I directed the churches of Galatia, so you also are to do. ² On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come. ³ And when I arrive, I will send those whom you accredit by letter to carry your gift to Jerusalem. ⁴ If it seems advisable that I should go also, they will accompany me.

Verse 2 needs to be seen in context of verses 1 and 3. Verse 2 Paul encourages people to store up a collection on the first of every week. What was the purpose for this collection? Paul in verse 1 tells us he instructed the churches of Galatia in the same manner. The collection was for the saints in Jerusalem as seen in verse 3.

This collection often known as the "Jerusalem collection" was something Paul asked many of the Genitle churches to be a part of to relieve the famine, double taxation, and overpopulation going on in Judea in the 40's. It was for a specific time and a specific group of people in a specific place. Paul delivered a gift to Antioch in Acts 11:29-30. In Romans 15:26 Paul states that the churches of Macedonia and Achaia "were pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem," but the actual list of contributing churches is likely much longer including Berea, Thessalonica, Derbe and Asia.

This was a great expression of the interdependence of the Believers in the Church worldwide. It was pretty awesome if you think about it as God moved people to give generously. Notice too Paul didn't teach that I'm aware of tithing to the Gentile churches... We need to remember as well the target audience Paul wrote to was also a society based upon honor. By giving to the church in Jerusalem the Gentile churches were honoring the Jewish believers. Paul tells the church in Corinth that they are a testimony to God's grace...

2 Cor 9:14

¹⁴ and by their prayer for you, who long for you because of the exceeding grace of God in you.

This gift was a representation of the heart of the Gospel - that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, not male and female (Gal 3:28).

 

Gal 3:28

²⁸ There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

So in a sense this gift created unity in the early Church particularly between Jews and Gentiles. Do you see brother?

God bless,

GE

[Donibm]

I know you all don't mean it like this, but deep down, I think you do.

 

It's not about US! 

 

This thing isn't about "Christians". 

 

Adam, Seth, Abel, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Micah, and millions of others who were not even Israelites - men and women who served God and never even heard of a "Hebrew" or an "Israelite" or "Jerusalem" - were not Christian.  There are people living right this minute who are obeying the goodness of their conscious and will enter the Kingdom of God ... and they've never heard the Gospel.

 

I know this is beyond this thread, but I just want to admonish the brethren to stop being prideful, thinking you are Gods special little people (in some regard you are, but if you are receiving this as I intend, you know what I mean).  It is NOT about us.  It's ALL about Jesus.  Every Book of the Bible is about the Messiah, not "Christains".

 

It is not a "Christian perspective", but the Word of GOD.

 

Glory belongs to HIM, and we should give it ALL too HIM.  We are mearly ... stewards.  Does a steward dare rob the King of His glory?  Heaven forbid that I ever do it, and God forgive me for the times I have.

 

 

Again, no nit-picking.  Yes, we ARE our brothers keepers, and we ARE commanded to both encourage AND admonish each other.  To whomever is truely redeemed, hear what the Spirit says about this.

[GoldenEagle]

I know you all don't mean it like this, but deep down, I think you do.

 

It's not about US! 

 

This thing isn't about "Christians". 

 

Adam, Seth, Abel, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Micah, and millions of others who were not even Israelites - men and women who served God and never even heard of a "Hebrew" or an "Israelite" or "Jerusalem" - were not Christian.  There are people living right this minute who are obeying the goodness of their conscious and will enter the Kingdom of God ... and they've never heard the Gospel.

 

I know this is beyond this thread, but I just want to admonish the brethren to stop being prideful, thinking you are Gods special little people (in some regard you are, but if you are receiving this as I intend, you know what I mean).  It is NOT about us.  It's ALL about Jesus.  Every Book of the Bible is about the Messiah, not "Christains".

 

It is not a "Christian perspective", but the Word of GOD.

 

Glory belongs to HIM, and we should give it ALL too HIM.  We are mearly ... stewards.  Does a steward dare rob the King of His glory?  Heaven forbid that I ever do it, and God forgive me for the times I have.

 

 

Again, no nit-picking.  Yes, we ARE our brothers keepers, and we ARE commanded to both encourage AND admonish each other.  To whomever is truely redeemed, hear what the Spirit says about this.

Sorry I don't understand this in red. A Christian perspective is based on the Word of God (the BIble). The Bible is indeed about God and Messiah. Yet the Bible is also how we understand what our role is as Christ-followers (Christians).

 

How do you figure people who are living right by obeying the "goodness of their conscience will enter the Kingdom of God... and they've never heard the Gospel."?

Rom. 10:14

¹⁴ How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?

I agree we are stewards of what God given us. What do you mean by "Does a steward dare rob the King of His glory?" We aren't talking about robbing God. We're talking about what it means to be a good steward of what has given us if you will. Note too what I said earlier...

 

That said I do believe Scripture points to the Believer giving joyfully.  There is no specific number for the Christian but instead whatever God lays on our heart. Typically, this can be significantly more than 10%. God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Cor. 9:7)  

 

The Spirit speaks through God's Word. Show me in Scripture how the Spirit speaks differently than what has been put forth?

God bless,

GE