tsunami’s toll tops 52,000

[Work in Progress]

Frog, I don't agree with you. I, too, find it terribly sad as they pray to their false gods as they mourn. Because Christ said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the father but by me".

Now, you, and many others may not believe Christ. But I believe Him to be the Son of God, I believe the Scriptures have proven themselves to be true, and I know that He is not a liar. There is only one way to the Creator, and it's Christ.

I won't offend you with patronizing comments or 'feeling sorry' for you. But I will always stand and say that Christ is alive and is Truth. There is no other way to God.

God Bless - and I mean that sincerely, not condescendingly.

[UndecidedFrog]

Dear WIP,

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

You really needn't agree with me. You and everyone else is definitely allowed to disagree with me.

I understand you hold your beliefs strongly. Let me ask you the following:

1) Would you try to convert these buddhists and hindus as they mourn their dead?

2) As they pray to their gods, would you walk up to them and tell them that they are praying to the wrong gods?

3) As they mourn their loved ones that were lost, would you approach them and tell them that they should now convert to your beliefs because they should not end up in hell like their lost loved ones?

I'm not sure I am succeeding in conveying my meaning for the word respect.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

[followerofjesus]

Undecided Frog ,

1 Have you counted the cost of unbelief?

2 Do you care?

[apothanein kerdos]

Acts 17:22-31

I think I'd try that

[nebula]

Dear nebula,

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

The "straight and narrow" is Jesus - and Jesus alone.

It is indeed unfortunate that this straight and narrow disallows some christians from respecting people of other beliefs, even as they mourn their dead.

It may be my broad approach allows me to stay silent about my non-beliefs of deities when christians or buddhists or hindus mourn. But I think it is really encapsulated in the concept of respect.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know you do not realize it, but there you go again!

In one sentence you say you respect our beliefs, and then in the next you tell us (in subtle ways), "You all are dead wrong!"

Now, if you can show me even one verse in the Bible - our instruction book - which states that we should "tolerate" others beliefs and "respect" other gods, I am all ears.

For I can sure show you a whole mess of verses that speak against the worship of other gods - also called false gods - and about our command to preach the Gospel of Jesus to the nations of the world.

Jesus told us to shine our light, and even commanded against "hiding it under a bush" or "under a bowl" (translation: against keeping it to ourselves).

If you are going to respect our beliefs, you will have to respect this belief as well!

[UndecidedFrog]

Dear nebula,

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

Thanks for your response.

There is a big difference between respecting the people who have beliefs in different gods and respecting their different gods.

I don't think you will argue with me that everyone has the right to believe as they wish. I don't think you will argue with me that indeed different people believe differently.

I hope you will not argue with me when I say it is correct to respect these different people who believe differently, especially in their time of mourning.

I do not have to respect any beliefs to respect the people who believe them. Maybe it's different for you? I would like to know.

I know you do not realize it, but there you go again!

In one sentence you say you respect our beliefs, and then in the next you tell us (in subtle ways), "You all are dead wrong!"

Please show me where (as you claimed) I have said that I respect different beliefs. I think you are confusing that with my respect for PEOPLE who have different beliefs. I'm sorry you think that I am saying you all are dead wrong. It was not my intention to convey that message. However, I think your outrage is good. It shows how someone would feel if they were told they were believing in an incorrect god. Perhaps this will give you some idea of how the hindu and buddhist people might feel if they heard the patronizing thread:

I feel bad that many people are saying buddist prayers over their dead loved ones. It is so sad.

You further said:

Now, if you can show me even one verse in the Bible - our instruction book - which states that we should "tolerate" others beliefs and "respect" other gods, I am all ears.

On the contrary, the bible is intolerant of other gods. This is irrelevant to me, since, as an atheist, I do not have any beliefs in any god/s. Now, please show me where in the bible it says to be intolerant of PEOPLE who believe in other gods.

Jesus told us to shine our light, and even commanded against "hiding it under a bush" or "under a bowl" (translation: against keeping it to ourselves).

I really do not think this would be well received when "heathens" are mourning their lost.

Regards.

UndecidedFrog

[CarolineS]

Undecided Frog,

If I could go to this area of devastation and assist with rebuilding, clothing, feeding the hungry, and if I could build a large chuch I would.

I would tell them about my God, a God who sees all their tears and knows what they are feeling and going through. A God who cares about their every need, knows their every need and has a plan for their life. I would tell them to put away their idols that cannot see, hear or talk. You bet I would.

What could you offer them if you went there???

Respect: to avoid intruding upon.

Think of it this way. You are on a boat on the river fishing. A storm comes up.

Your best friend is with you. Someone who is very precious to you. Someone you care about and would not want to live without. A friend or family member you love very much. That person falls into the water and is fighting for their life to escape the rapids. You run and get a life preserver with a long rope on it. You throw that life perserver to your friend and say, "Grab on, I can save you." Your friend says, "No, I can do it myself. That rope won't save me. I don't need it." Your friend is convinced that life preserver won't save him. So you stand there and watch your friend drown when you hold in your hands the power to save him or her. Are you going to "respect" your friends viewpoint or are you going to try everything in your power to save them?

That's what an unsaved person is to God. A precious soul who desperately needs Jesus. He's our life preserver. The only one who can save us.

I think you are looking at this whole situation from the wrong viewpoint. But you are not a Christian, so I guess you don't get it. So am I supposed to just say,

"Hey, I respect that." I don't think so.

In Chirst,

CarolineS

[nebula]

Hey!

I hope you will not argue with me when I say it is correct to respect these different people who believe differently, especially in their time of mourning.

I was just thinking something - I hope you understand that the comment that sparked this debate came from a Christian sharing her feeling with other Christians. It is sad for us to see people in need praying to a dead man who cannot answer their prayers. This tears at our hearts that they know not the One who can truly bring them life. This is what we believe.

I also hope you realize that this does not mean any of us would say this to their faces in this way during their time of grief. There are better ways of pointing people to Jesus.

I do not have to respect any beliefs to respect the people who believe them.  Maybe it's different for you?  I would like to know.

Where did you get the idea we had no respect for the people?

However, I think your outrage is good.  It shows how someone would feel if they were told they were believing in an incorrect god.  Perhaps this will give you some idea of how the hindu and buddhist people might feel if they heard the patronizing thread:

I feel bad that many people are saying buddist prayers over their dead loved ones. It is so sad.

Again, Frog -

You come on board a Christian message board and consistently tell us how uspet you are with us for expressing our beliefs - as you did previously in this thread. It seems to be a mission of yours to tell us to keep our faith out of other people's lives.

Why?

And you want to talk of intollerance? Ha! I spent practically every day of my growing years being made fun of, jeered, cut down, you name it from my classmates throughout elementary and middle school for my love for Jesus and my convictions.

"Perhaps this will give you some idea . . ." Puh-lease! "I feel bad" is nothing like, "Christian scum-ball!"

  Now, please show me where in the bible it says to be intolerant of PEOPLE who believe in other gods.

Well, in the OT, the people of God were told to put to death those who worshiped false gods in their midst.

In the NT, Jesus said to His disciples that when they went from town to town preaching the Kingdom of God, if anyone did not receive them and their message, they were to leave and "shake the dust off their feet" as a warning against them.

When a woman of a pagan religion came to Jesus for help, He ignored her until she showed evidence of faith.

The Apostles? They didn't show much tollerance for those who rejected Jesus and apposed them.

Stephen spoke words of judgment to the unbelieving who put him on trial for his preaching the Gospel.

Paul commanded blindness on a sorcerer.

Your point is quite unscriptural.

Jesus told us to shine our light, and even commanded against "hiding it under a bush" or "under a bowl" (translation: against keeping it to ourselves).

I really do not think this would be well received when "heathens" are mourning their lost.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, this is a Christian message board with Christians sharing their feelings and beliefs with each other.

You havea problem with that? Do you want us to change our beliefs, or to be silent to each other about them?

Why are you here?

[UndecidedFrog]

Dear nebula,

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

Thanks for your response.

I also hope you realize that this does not mean any of us would say this to their faces in this way during their time of grief.

Thank you for agreeing with me on at least this main point. I hope what you have stated is indeed true. From what I have seen posted, I wasn't sure.

You come on board a Christian message board and consistently tell us how uspet you are with us for expressing our beliefs - as you did previously in this thread. It seems to be a mission of yours to tell us to keep our faith out of other people's lives.

Why?

I come on this board and consistently convey my opinion. Some of my opinions will differ from others. That is a given. It is no mission of mine to tell you to keep your faith out of other people's lives. You mistake me. My main point in these series of posts was stated above (which you have agreed to).

Well, in the OT, the people of God were told to put to death those who worshiped false gods in their midst.

In the NT, Jesus said to His disciples that when they went from town to town preaching the Kingdom of God, if anyone did not receive them and their message, they were to leave and "shake the dust off their feet" as a warning against them.

When a woman of a pagan religion came to Jesus for help, He ignored her until she showed evidence of faith.

The Apostles? They didn't show much tollerance for those who rejected Jesus and apposed them.

Stephen spoke words of judgment to the unbelieving who put him on trial for his preaching the Gospel.

Paul commanded blindness on a sorcerer.

How nice. Although these examples are from various parts of the bible, I would not support doing any. You can do as you will.

Again, this is a Christian message board with Christians sharing their feelings and beliefs with each other.

You havea problem with that? Do you want us to change our beliefs, or to be silent to each other about them?

Why are you here?

I am very aware that this is a christian message board. I have no problems with that. I do not want you to change your beliefs or to silence anyone about them. I am here to provide a non-christian perspective to issues that I feel the need to write about. I shall continue until told by an admin/moderator that I am not allowed to do so any longer.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

[apothanein kerdos]

Frog, does my belief or statements make your beliefs and statements any less true?