Is smoking tobacco a sin ?

[disciplehelovestoo]

 

 

 

people were afraid to approach God because they feared His judgement for their sins; yes, Jesus came to remove every reason that man might have to fear God's judgment; but even more, Jesus came to remove all reasons why man might not seek fellowship with God -  forgiveness of sins was a huge part of that, but it wasn't all He did for us.  He made us joint-heirs with Him, and He took the curse of the law for us.  from God's perspective, sins (wrong thoughts and actions) are not an issue, He honors Jesus' sacrifice for all wrong thoughts and actions - what sends people to hell is rejecting a relationship with God based solely on faith in His grace, and independent of their performance, good or bad.

 

the good news of the gospel is not remission of sins; that's true, but that's not the almost-too-good-to-be-true news of the gospel - the good news of the gospel is that you can know God, which IS life eternal, based on faith in His grace, and regardless of your own performance, good or bad.  

 

Jesus was very hard on some people; but not adulterers, or prostitutes, or thieves (or smokers) - Jesus was hard on the self-righteous - those who thought that their own holiness based in their performance could gain them favor with God; these were those whom He said were of their father the devil.  where did Jesus point out someone's wrong thoughts or actions aside from those He called hypocrites?  

 

Jesus was actually very tough on sin.  Jesus didn't just condemn the sins of the self-righteous.  He told the sinners to go and sin no more.  He didn't cut them any slack, either. 

 

when you received spiritual rebirth, did God immediately point out all your wrong thoughts and actions and expect you to turn completely from all of your 'sins' instantly and never make another mistake?  or did He start with one or two things that you needed to change, and once you understood about those things, show you another one or two more things you need to change, etc.? 

 

God commands to flee from all sin.  He doesn't pick out just one two. Light that shines in our hearts to reveal sin is a floodlight not a penlight.

 

 He does this with everyone; but many seem to think He needs help with this - that they should point out other people's 'sins' to them independent of God's leading; this was exactly what the pharisees were doing in John 8:3 that led Jesus to tell them that they were of their father the devil in John 8:44 - they were pointing out someone's sins.

 

We are called to expose sin.  Read Ephesians 5.  We are called to expose the deeds of darkness.  We are called to call sin what it is.  We are not judging others, but we are exposing what is or is not sin.

 

 

many feel competent to judge actions as sins that aren't dealt with in the scriptures; much like the pharisees judged people who didn't wash their hands before they ate:

Mar 7:5-8

(5)  Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

(6)  He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

(7)  Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

(8)  For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

 

notice Jesus' harsh response - would He be saying this to those who call smoking sin and point this out to fellow believers who smoke?

No, He wouldn't.  You can't compare a ritual tradition with a self-destructive habit that detracts from God's glory.  Your comparison is invalid.   Smoking isn't a religious tradition or ritual.  So it is not analogous to hand washing.

 

 

 

i never said that we should never point out when a believer is in sin; i said we have to be careful to be led by God to do this or it will merely bring condemnation on that believer; and this only for those wrong thoughts and actions that God has defined as 'sins' in the scriptures - if God didn't clearly point out that smoking is sin, then why do you feel that you can make this decision for Him?

 

the difference between what i am doing and what you are doing here in this thread is that i have clear scripture to stand on for what i believe...

 

That is false.  You have been provided Scripture and your consistent misuse and mishandling of Scripture has correctted and refuted many times over.

 

 

 

don't quit the thread; show scriptures for your beliefs instead - don't let offense stop you from helping the silent readers who are following this.

 

 

You have been provided Scriptures many times and you ignore them.  Asking for what has already been provided, and ignored and then returning to thread as if nothing has been provided is a dishonest tactic.

 

 

 

Ephesians 5 says absolutely nothing about smoking.  plucking verses out of context may help you justify your beliefs, and may in your mind give you the right to call me dishonest, but it does not move me at all.  you are not God; you are no authority that i need yield to - no matter how condescending and insulting you try to be.  in spite of that, i forgive you anyway.

 

You have been provided plenty of Scriptures and to deny such IS dishonest.   I have not said anything I need to be forgiven for.  I am simply expressing a level honesty about your tactics that you can't seem to face up to.

 

As for Eph. 5, I didn't say that Eph. 5 said anything about smoking.  I said that Eph 5 tells us that we are to expose the works of darkness.  That was in response to your erroneous claim that we aren't supposed to tell people about their sin.

 

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

(Eph 5:11-13)

 

 

i've quoted scripture in context and you've rejected this; you've used individual scripture taken out of context to prove your own belief - let the readers judge between us; i'll waste no more time re-hashing the same things over and over with you.  you say i'm dishonest; i have no respect for your opinion, so say what you will; you can't offend me or goad me into anger.

[Guest shiloh357]

i've quoted scripture in context and you've rejected this; you've used individual scripture taken out of context to prove your own belief - let the readers judge between us; i'll waste no more time re-hashing the same things over and over with you.  you say i'm dishonest; i have no respect for your opinion, so say what you will; you can't offend me or goad me into anger.

 

I have not taken anything out of context.   I have always noted the context and the behavioral paradigm those Scriptures addreses.  If I had used those verses to directly address smoking, then yes they would have been taken out of context, but that is not what I did.

 

What I have shown is that you wrong apply smoking to verses that are referring to ritual traditions and if anyone is taking anything out of context you are.  You violate context by applying smoking to a dissimilar issue.

 

You ignore most of the Scripture provided to you and then pretend nothing was ever offered.   Obviously are a bit challenged when it comes to understanding the nature of literary context.

 

And it really doesn't matter to me if you respond to me or not.  I will still respond to your posts to keep people from being misled by your unscriptural statements in this thread.

[disciplehelovestoo]

 

i've quoted scripture in context and you've rejected this; you've used individual scripture taken out of context to prove your own belief - let the readers judge between us; i'll waste no more time re-hashing the same things over and over with you.  you say i'm dishonest; i have no respect for your opinion, so say what you will; you can't offend me or goad me into anger.

 

I have not taken anything out of context.   I have always noted the context and the behavioral paradigm those Scriptures addreses.  If I had used those verses to directly address smoking, then yes they would have been taken out of context, but that is not what I did.

 

What I have shown is that you wrong apply smoking to verses that are referring to ritual traditions and if anyone is taking anything out of context you are.  You violate context by applying smoking to a dissimilar issue.

 

You ignore most of the Scripture provided to you and then pretend nothing was ever offered.   Obviously are a bit challenged when it comes to understanding the nature of literary context.

 

And it really doesn't matter to me if you respond to me or not.  I will still respond to your posts to keep people from being misled by your unscriptural statements in this thread.

 

you may as well get used to this response:

 

i've quoted scripture in context and you've rejected this; you've used individual scripture taken out of context to prove your own belief - let the readers judge between us; i'll waste no more time re-hashing the same things over and over with you.  you say i'm dishonest; i have no respect for your opinion, so say what you will; you can't offend me or goad me into anger.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

i've quoted scripture in context and you've rejected this; you've used individual scripture taken out of context to prove your own belief - let the readers judge between us; i'll waste no more time re-hashing the same things over and over with you.  you say i'm dishonest; i have no respect for your opinion, so say what you will; you can't offend me or goad me into anger.

 

I have not taken anything out of context.   I have always noted the context and the behavioral paradigm those Scriptures addreses.  If I had used those verses to directly address smoking, then yes they would have been taken out of context, but that is not what I did.

 

What I have shown is that you wrong apply smoking to verses that are referring to ritual traditions and if anyone is taking anything out of context you are.  You violate context by applying smoking to a dissimilar issue.

 

You ignore most of the Scripture provided to you and then pretend nothing was ever offered.   Obviously are a bit challenged when it comes to understanding the nature of literary context.

 

And it really doesn't matter to me if you respond to me or not.  I will still respond to your posts to keep people from being misled by your unscriptural statements in this thread.

 

you may as well get used to this response:

 

i've quoted scripture in context and you've rejected this; you've used individual scripture taken out of context to prove your own belief - let the readers judge between us; i'll waste no more time re-hashing the same things over and over with you.  you say i'm dishonest; i have no respect for your opinion, so say what you will; you can't offend me or goad me into anger.

 

That's fine.  it means you can't mount a serious, thoughtful or meaningful response.  You are out of steam.  If all you can manage to do is to continue making dishonest claims, that is up to you.   But when you post false teachings as you have on this thread, no matter who you are addressing, I am going to expose that. 

[Fez]

Disciple..

you can ask me a thousand times and my answer will be the same: smoking is a sin for you if you think it is; and if you don't think it is, then it is not a sin for you; because it is not clearly defined as sin in the scripture

 

And there my friend is the can of worms!

 

Cocaine, heroin, use or sale. Pornography, use or sale.

 

The list is endless.....

[GoldenEagle]

 

Wow this discussion is still going on...

Seems to me if it's a stumbling block to those weak in the faith it should be avoided. Is it sin? For those who view it as sin it is as such. Do we have a right to smoke? Sure, but it is not beneficial or edifying. Our right shouldn't be a stumbling block to those who are weak.

That only applies to issues of conscience.   Smoking is unclean, it destroys and abuses the body, it detracts from God's glory and those facts alone keep it out of the realm of an issue conscience, no matter how hard you try to paint it that way.

 

 

Right that is your opinion brother that the passage only applies to issues of conscience. I take the Scripture to apply towards the issue of smoking. I agree smoking particularly in excess is not healthy. But as stated numerous times in this thread if you take a stance that smoking is sin you'd have to consider a whole plethora of issues sin - eating unhealthy, not exercising, etc.

Everyone has an opinion. So you view it as sin. So don't smoke.  

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

Wow this discussion is still going on...

Seems to me if it's a stumbling block to those weak in the faith it should be avoided. Is it sin? For those who view it as sin it is as such. Do we have a right to smoke? Sure, but it is not beneficial or edifying. Our right shouldn't be a stumbling block to those who are weak.

That only applies to issues of conscience.   Smoking is unclean, it destroys and abuses the body, it detracts from God's glory and those facts alone keep it out of the realm of an issue conscience, no matter how hard you try to paint it that way.

 

 

Right that is your opinion brother that the passage only applies to issues of conscience. I take the Scripture to apply towards the issue of smoking.

 

Smoking is not an issue of conscience due to the fact that it detracts from teh glory of God and is poor stewardship of the body.

 

I agree smoking particularly in excess is not healthy.

 

There is no such thing as smoking in excess.  Smoking isn't like drinking.  ONE cigarette is destructive, and is a carcinogen.  Just smoking one cigarette a day is doing irreparable harm to the body.   Smokers never heal from much of the damage they do to their bodies and it doesn't matter if they were a chain smokier or not.  I have seen what the lungs of people who smoke look like who only smoke occasionally and they are just as sickly as those who chain smoke.   So this notion of "smoking to excess" is just plain nonsense.

 

 

But as stated numerous times in this thread if you take a stance that smoking is sin you'd have to consider a whole plethora of issues sin - eating unhealthy, not exercising, etc.

 

Yes, and if you bother to check, I was the one who said that!!!!   I said it more than once on this thread.

 

Everyone has an opinion. So you view it as sin. So don't smoke.  

 

I am not expressing an opinion.  When we do things to ourselves that destroy our temple, we are sinning.   

[ProzacR]

In my opinion Bible discourages drugs, but language on issue is quite soft more as friendly advice than sin or ban.

You can find far more searching about wine which was far more available on Biblical times like:

Eph 5:18 (NRS) Do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit.

[disciplehelovestoo]

What it comes down to is some of us feel scripture shows smoking is a sin, and we have given our reasons.  Some don't feel it is a sin and have given reasons.  The fact of the matter is, one side is right and one side is wrong.  Only God knows for sure, so it would be a good idea to seek the Lord about it, especially if you are a smoker, rather than fighting with those who think smoking is a sin.  I can tell you right now that nothing in this thread has caused me to feel I am wrong.  My Grandfather died prematurely as a direct result of smoking.  There was a woman managing a store I used to deliver to each week who died in her 40s as a result of a lifetime of smoking.  She was perfectly healthy in every other way, and likely would have lived to be an old woman if not for cigarettes.  I have a relative who died in his 40s because of smoking, as well as other relatives with chronic breathing problems because of tobacco.  The thing is, cigarettes serve no good purpose.  There is no nutritional value.  Our bodies weren't designed to inhale smoke into our lungs.  There is nobody that will change my mind, and likely, people like Shiloh won't be convinced smoking is ok either, no matter how much some object.  What this means is that if you are going to smoke, you might as well get used to the fact some will look at you as in sin.  No amount of judging or falling from grace arguments will make any difference, because we won't agree with your interpretation of scripture.  You will have to deal with it. 

i think this is a great post!  it's for the most part what i've been driving toward all along:

 

- that smoking is something each christian must seek God about, as it is not clearly addressed in scripture (as is adultery for example)

 

- that scripture is the ONLY standard we can trust; experience varies from person to person, and the doctrines each of us believe are based at least in part on the doctrines each person has been exposed to in their individual walk - but scripture does not change, and is absolutely complete - it is our understanding of scripture that is lacking - yours, mine, and everyone else's - none if us has the complete revelation of God's word - there are no absolute authorities in flesh bodies on the exact meaning of scripture as a whole.  

 

i would say that we're both right - you are right in that, in your thinking, smoking is wrong based on you're understanding of scripture; i am right in that since for me it isn't clear in scripture (as adultery is for example), that each person must seek God about this.

 

i'm glad we didn't get offended and give up on each other!

 

Pro 27:17

(17)  People learn from one another, just as iron sharpens iron.

[Johnlove]

If one is not sure if something is a wrongdoing or not, but does it anyway, I believe scripture says that is a sin.