Need Hebrew Scholar or Very Wise

[Guest Yasha]

duh? I know what the Apocrypha is....I'm wondering what you mean when you say that you "keep" it?

Let's look at the context of Zephaniah 3 and talk about it.

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My opinion on verse 9?

Our tongue is a raging fire from hell. Most people have some amount of control over their actions but none can tame the tongue.

I think this tells of a day when no guile will be spoken because our hearts will be purified. The haughty man is humbled, the lofty one brought low. I see this as a parallel to Isaiah 2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds good...Now give me your answer for verse 9...

From the KJV, do you believe Zephaniah 3:9 is being fulfilled, where He's converting believers to call His true name in a pure clean language?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you believe it is a sin to use the names Jesus and God?

Yes, I would echo Yod's question which you ignored... How do you "keep" the Apocrypha?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To add to what you're saying, and make it much stronger; verse 8 in Zephaniah 3rd chapter; the Yehowah will gather nations(plural), in all the earth, to have them speak His name in a pure(clean) language...All the languages of the earth are unclean, accept the language that the Almighty Yahh speaks...This is why He said He will give them a pure(clean) language to call on His name...Yes, He wants His name to be spoken in a clean language which comes from heaven...The Yehowah cannot speak in a unclean or impure language, because the scriptures say, His spoken words are pure...

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Psalms 12

6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Proverbs 30

5Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Acts 26

14And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

15And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said,(His name in Hebrew)

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Is this the language He desires for us to call His name in Zephaniah 3:9? Show me in the Bible where it says, it doesn't matter what impure language you call His name in, or did somebody tell you that? Show me the name the Gentiles were persecuted for calling in the New Testament? If Jesus was not popularized in English Bibles until the 1600's, where in the Bible it says o.k. to call Him by other translated names?

I would call on Jesus if the scriptures didn't say we have to speak the truth and call the true one name...But the scriptures says, He has one singular name, this concludes not more names in other languages, right? It never said He has one name in every language, correct? He may be universal, but show me in the scriptures where His one salvation name is given to be in universal languages by Him?

So why must we call His true name and not a false made up name given by man?

Bible reason:

1. Phillipians 2:9 said, The Almighty already gave Him a name...man cannot give Him a name...

2. Acts 4:12 said, theres no salvation in any other names, except the one name that the Most High gave...Once man gives a name, there is no longer salvation in man's name.

3. Psalms 86:11 said, Learn the truth that you may fear His name in the truth...Those who reject the true name, refuse to learn the truth, and rather call a false name given by man, instead of calling the true name given by the Yehowah in Hebrew...

4. Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

James 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

1 John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

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I take it that most people will challange this by saying their salvation and saving does not rest in a name, but I have scriptures to say otherwise...

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John 3:18 says if you don't believe in His name; believe means truth or true, if you don't believe the true name, then you're damned to suffer...Condemned means to be punished and have misery in life, wether you suffrer from miserable diseases, miserable marriage, miserable job, miserable life of anykind...

****

Have you noticed how saints always persecuted the messenger in the Bible, and they would refuse the messege...I gain nothing from you, by telling the truth, because those who hear the truth will do it...Yes, everything I gave is from the scripture and has been proven by the Holy Spirit which comes from the Word...I'm not hung up on a name, I'm hung up on the truth when I recieve it from the scriptures...I know you may not speak Hebrew, but you can call His true name in Hebrew, if you can speak words...It's every christian responsibility to tell the truth given by the scriptures...If you don't tell the truth by the scriptures, then you support and condone false misinformation about the truth of His true name.

To carify, I follow the Apocrypha as doctrine, wherefore I keep what's in the Apocrypha, such as Channukah, etc.

[Catsmeow]

It is simply saying that there will be no guile spoken again.

What a miracle that would be!

This is the biggest invisible sin in christians....which is why I have the verse dealing with it in my signature.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen, brother!

[Guest shiloh357]

duh? I know what the Apocrypha is....I'm wondering what you mean when you say that you "keep" it?

Let's look at the context of Zephaniah 3 and talk about it.

=========================

====================

My opinion on verse 9?

Our tongue is a raging fire from hell. Most people have some amount of control over their actions but none can tame the tongue.

I think this tells of a day when no guile will be spoken because our hearts will be purified. The haughty man is humbled, the lofty one brought low. I see this as a parallel to Isaiah 2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds good...Now give me your answer for verse 9...

From the KJV, do you believe Zephaniah 3:9 is being fulfilled, where He's converting believers to call His true name in a pure clean language?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you believe it is a sin to use the names Jesus and God?

Yes, I would echo Yod's question which you ignored... How do you "keep" the Apocrypha?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To add to what you're saying, and make it much stronger; verse 8 in Zephaniah 3rd chapter; the Yehowah will gather nations(plural), in all the earth, to have them speak His name in a pure(clean) language...All the languages of the earth are unclean, accept the language that the Almighty Yahh speaks...This is why He said He will give them a pure(clean) language to call on His name...Yes, He wants His name to be spoken in a clean language which comes from heaven...The Yehowah cannot speak in a unclean or impure language, because the scriptures say, His spoken words are pure...

****

Psalms 12

6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Proverbs 30

5Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Acts 26

14And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

15And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said,(His name in Hebrew)

****

Is this the language He desires for us to call His name in Zephaniah 3:9? Show me in the Bible where it says, it doesn't matter what impure language you call His name in, or did somebody tell you that? Show me the name the Gentiles were persecuted for calling in the New Testament? If Jesus was not popularized in English Bibles until the 1600's, where in the Bible it says o.k. to call Him by other translated names?

I would call on Jesus if the scriptures didn't say we have to speak the truth and call the true one name...But the scriptures says, He has one singular name, this concludes not more names in other languages, right? It never said He has one name in every language, correct? He may be universal, but show me in the scriptures where His one salvation name is given to be in universal languages by Him?

So why must we call His true name and not a false made up name given by man?

Bible reason:

1. Phillipians 2:9 said, The Almighty already gave Him a name...man cannot give Him a name...

2. Acts 4:12 said, theres no salvation in any other names, except the one name that the Most High gave...Once man gives a name, there is no longer salvation in man's name.

3. Psalms 86:11 said, Learn the truth that you may fear His name in the truth...Those who reject the true name, refuse to learn the truth, and rather call a false name given by man, instead of calling the true name given by the Yehowah in Hebrew...

4. Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

James 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

1 John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

****

I take it that most people will challange this by saying their salvation and saving does not rest in a name, but I have scriptures to say otherwise...

****

John 3:18 says if you don't believe in His name; believe means truth or true, if you don't believe the true name, then you're damned to suffer...Condemned means to be punished and have misery in life, wether you suffrer from miserable diseases, miserable marriage, miserable job, miserable life of anykind...

****

Have you noticed how saints always persecuted the messenger in the Bible, and they would refuse the messege...I gain nothing from you, by telling the truth, because those who hear the truth will do it...Yes, everything I gave is from the scripture and has been proven by the Holy Spirit which comes from the Word...I'm not hung up on a name, I'm hung up on the truth when I recieve it from the scriptures...I know you may not speak Hebrew, but you can call His true name in Hebrew, if you can speak words...It's every christian responsibility to tell the truth given by the scriptures...If you don't tell the truth by the scriptures, then you support and condone false misinformation about the truth of His true name.

To carify, I follow the Apocrypha as doctrine, wherefore I keep what's in the Apocrypha, such as Channukah, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So from your perspective, everyone who has called on the name of "Jesus" for salvation cannot be saved, since you are saying that it is not His "Salvation Name?"

Everyone who called on Jesus for salvation is not saved? That appears to be the jist of your remarks. Am I correct in my understanding of what you are saying?

To carify, I follow the Apocrypha as doctrine, wherefore I keep what's in the Apocrypha, such as Channukah, etc.

What doctrines do you find in the Apocrypha? BTW Chanukah is not a doctrine. How do you explain the fact that Yeshua never used the apocrypha during His earthly ministry? How do you explain that the apostles never refer to the Apocrypha in any of their epistles?

[Catsmeow]

I began this topic, which was originally concerning the "cleaness" or "impurity" of certain animals or creatures.

Since I am blessed to be among brethren who are highly knowledgable and well learned in these matters, may I ask another question?

Can anyone tell me what, if anything, would knats and flies be symbolic of in OT scripture. Of course there are literal knats and flies but could these creatures also have a symbolic meaning?

[Botz]

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Phi 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

There are many that call Him both Yeshua and Adonai,Jesus and L-rd and yet He says of them..."I never knew you".

It is not so much learning or knowing the correct name of the L-rd or its pronounciation...this smacks of gnosticism...what is crucial to every Believer is who the Lord is and what is His sphere of authority.

You can call Him the right name but not accord Him the honour that is due His name and therefore serve and worship someone who is less than G-d Almighty and who is a misrepresentation of the King of Kings and L-rd of L-rds that is recorded in the Scriptures and revealed to man by the Holy Ghost.

Pure lips is symbolic of a pure heart...'from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.'

I would venture to say that getting hung up on the name of Jesus/Yeshua to such an extent is paramount to straining at gnats and swallowing a camel and does nothing to further the Gospel but rather divides and causes a clique and ultimately is dishonouring to the Gospel message.

I know in whom I have believed.

[Guest yod]

"symbolic of a pure heart"...thanks for making simple, Botz.

And much applause for the segueway of gnats right into it.

Yes, I suppose one could look at the surface level of a new language and think it's about the actual words, but a language is made to communicate and each language has it's own characteristics.

Biblical hebrew has never had a cuss word so it is a pure language. Yet even then the hebrews themselves surely would have been using the languages of other nations who had these words? How many spoke Eygptian or Syrian or Babylonian or Persian or Aramaic or Greek?

So restoring a pure language in the drash (or is that remez?) would be speaking of something much deeper than just words or spellings.

[Botz]

Cheers Yod.

It is certainly true that Hebrew uses other languages in which to swear or cuss...years ago I remember in Israel learning the appropriate Arabic for given situations that was amusingly effective....and as there is nothing new under the sun I expect the languages of the Egyptians,Assyrians,Greeks,Romans etc were used this way in ancient times.

So restoring a pure language in the drash (or is that remez?) would be speaking of something much deeper than just words or spellings.

Yes it is the 'drash' and that is exactly correct in that it is allegorical and inspirational especially in the way a rabbi/preacher can make a legitimate point and bring an uplifting teaching from a text that initially has nothing really to do with what is being said.

I think the two factors that initiate this are G-d-given wisdom that each of us has to greater and lesser degrees and the directional input of the Holy Ghost...bearing in mind as well that the word of G-d is multi-layered like an onion. The parables of Jesus delivered in the traditional rabbinical way to the disciples are a good example.

My contention with what Yasha was intimating at is that it appears he is trying to use a 'sod' approach to the simple use of the name of the L-rd..and this implies insider information that needs to be obtained for salvation to truely have 'kicked in'...and as I mentioned before this is the sort of thing that has a Gnostic ring to it.

Without trying to be irreverent a person could call Yeshua/Jesus....Fred or Barney and be saved because they trusted in the L-rd..but got His name wrong...anyway you see the point.

In His Shalom. Botz

[nebula]

So when the angel  touched the coal to the lips of Isaiah (was it Isaiah?),

the coal was to purge his organ of speech and not necessarily his paticular language (which was hebrew?)? Is this right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am a little baffled by this talk of "a pure language" and I wonder how people came up with this interpretation of things.

But the purifying of the lips has to do with purifying the speach - not the language.

Compare with these words Jesus spoke:

Mt 12:34 -

Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

So what Botz is saying is in deed correct.

[Catsmeow]

Okay, since the thread I started has gone way off the topic of impure animals/creatures and I can't get anyone to help me...I'll start a NEW thread...

I give up.

[Guest Yasha]

Nobody addressed the scriptures concerning the truth about His true name, whereas the scriptures told us to tell the truth and not lie about His name...It also says that He was given a name already, but you seem not to choose the name that was given to man...Why do you support the name that man gave and not honor the name that Yahh already had given?

So why must we call His true name and not a false made up name given by man?

Bible reason:

1. Phillipians 2:9 said, The Almighty already gave Him a name...man cannot give Him a name...

2. Acts 4:12 said, theres no salvation in any other names, except the one name that the Most High gave...Once man gives a name, there is no longer salvation in man's name.

3. Psalms 86:11 said, Learn the truth that you may fear His name in the truth...Those who reject the true name, refuse to learn the truth, and rather call a false name given by man, instead of calling the true name given by the Yehowah in Hebrew...

4. Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

James 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

1 John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

The words believe and faith means truth or true...Because you believe something to be true, as well as have faith in the truth...Yes, this comes from the Bible dictionary meanings for the words believe and truth to mean truth or true, also found in regular dictionaries...Therefore the scriptures said to believe on His true name and have faith in the true name...

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Acts 3

16And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

Through this true name, because faith means to believe in the truth or to be true...

1 John 3

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son...

It's His commandment that we must believe on the true name of His Son...

Romans 1

5By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

All nations will be obedient unto faith for His true name, because faith means believe and true...

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There is no way to debate the truth about the true name, because the scriptues said to believe which means to be true...The scriptures said not to believe in a lie, but that we must believe in the truth...If man made up a false name for your Savior, do you honor man or will you honor the true name that Yahh gave to man for salvation...Your salvation is limited when you don't know the truth or speak the truth>>>

John 8

32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and *abode not in the truth*, because there is no truth in him. When *he speaketh a lie*(false, man made), he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Romans 3

4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

John 3

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath *not believed* in the (true) name of the only begotten Son of God.

I have told you the knowledge of the truth...It's up to you, wether you will support man's false lying made up name...Or will you abide in the truth and know the truth, that you may be free from ignorance and sin, whereas lying against the truth is a sin?

Hebrews 10

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,