Salty Posted August 2, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2014 Salty and Marv We seem to have a paradox in the shortening of days and Daniel 9:24. Perhaps the middle ground would be the following where both scriptures are not violated and in conflict. The 4th Trumpet Judgment seems to point to a Speeding Up of the Rotation of the Planet Earth. As in Joshua's Long Day (Joshua 10:12-14), However this is simply a speculation playing around with maths The darkening of 1/3 of the sun, moon, and stars (Revelation 8:12) refers to a speeding up of the rotation of the planet Earth by 50%; thus, it would cut a day down to 16 hours. This would be 1/3 less light from the "sun", i.e., daylight hours (normally 12 hours). 1/3 of 12 daylight hours equals 4 hours. 12 hours minus 4 hours equals 8 hours. So, 1/3 less light from the "sun" results in 8 hours of daylight in this new Apocalyptic Day. There would also be 1/3 less "moon" and "stars", i.e., nighttime hours, (also normally 12 hours). 1/3 of 12 nighttime hours is 4 hours. Again, 12 hours minus 4 hours equals 8 hours. So, 1/3 less light from the "moon" and "stars" results in 8 hours of nighttime in this new Apocalyptic Day. Combined, a new Apocalyptic Day would be 16 hours-- 1/3 less than the present 24 hour day-- after the sounding of the 4th Trumpet Judgment (Revelation 8:12-13). Further: The earth rotates roughly at 24,900 miles a day and as we know one rotation of the Earth on its axis, is a 24 hr period. Mathematically, 24,900 miles / 24 hours = 1,038 miles per hour of the speed of rotation of the planet Earth on its axis, presently. Likewise, in an Apocalyptic Day of 16 hours (following the 4th Trumpet Judgment), 24,900 miles / 16 hours = 1,556 miles per hour would be the speed of rotation of the planet Earth on its axis after the 4th Trumpet Judgment. 1,556 mph -1,038 mph = 518 mph. 518 mph is approximately 1/2 of the present speed of rotation of the planet Earth. Therefore, a 50% increase in the speed of rotation of the planet Earth is a result of the 4th Trumpet Judgment. Therefore the days are shortened by the new rotation of the earth making days and years go by quicker but also keeping with Daniel 9:24 seventy seven What our Lord Jesus said in Matt.24 that He shortened the time has nothing to do with some theory of the earth's rotation speeding up. I realize how some like to try and limit our Lord's 70 weeks prophecy He gave through Daniel as being fulfilled with Christ's crucifixion back in 29 A.D. But in reality the final events of the 70 weeks prophecy have still yet to be fulfilled today. So how much time has passed already beyond... a literal 490 years the 70 weeks point to? We're in 2014 and that 70 weeks has still yet to be completed, and won't be until Christ's second coming with the cleansing of the sanctuary. It is similar to Isaiah 61:1-2, with the last part of Isaiah 61:2 that is not to be fulfilled until the day of Christ's coming. Isa.61:1-2 61 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; In Luke 4 when Jesus read that from The Book of Isaiah at the start of His Ministry, He closed the Book before reaching that last part in red. It's because the time for the fulfillment of that part in red is about the time of His second coming, which is still waiting today. So how many years have passed since He read that from Isaiah 61, with that last part still not yet fulfilled today? Pretty close to 2,000 years so far. Same with the 70 weeks, there has been a time gap between the 69th week and the final 70th week that will only occur with the short time of the tribulation when the "abomination of desolation" of Matt.24 is placed, and then completed with the day of Christ's return. Can God do that, i.e., put a gap in the times of fulfillment like that? Well, did He do it with the Isaiah 61:1-2 example? YES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2014 Salty Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens have been decreed for your people and your holy city. This cannot be changed. You need to look in another direction for the days being shortened, for it does not mean what you are saying it means. In Christ Montana Marv Since our Lord Jesus Christ did... shorten the time, like HE said, then you go directly against what He said, and the Matt.24 Scripture. So you're not just disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with our Lord Jesus Christ, for there is no other way of interpretation of what He said there in Matt.24:22, "... for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened". You don't need to get testy just because you are found to be in error. OF COURSE there is another way of interpreting what Jesus said, the RIGHT interpretation. Now, let's see what Jesus REALLY said... Mat. 24 1 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened... Note that Jesus did not put a title on any period of time, such as making the entire last half of the week, "the great tribulation." That theory is man's idea, not God's. Next note that Jesus said "THOSE DAYS." The truth is, there will be "DAYS" of great tribulation. "Those days" of "great tribulation" will NOT extend to the end of the 42 months of the Beast's rule. This is the correct meaning. When God our Father decides it is enough, He will send the angels with the vials of His wrath and associated plagues, which will effectively stop the hunting down and murder of the saints, and thereby will SHORTEN "those days" of "great tribulation." "Great tribulation" will be OVER when the Beast and his armies are rendered helpless and not able to hunt down and murder the saints. OF COURSE the Beast will still have his 42 months. OF COURSE the city will be trampled for 42 months. OF COURSE the two witnesses will testify for their 1260 days - and be killed just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ENDS the 70th week. OF COURSE those fleeing will have their entire 1260 days to flee and be protected. The ONLY THING that will be "shortened" will be the number of days during that last 42 months where days of great tribulation are taking place -the hunting down and murder of the saints. The 70th week will NOT be shortened. The 1260 days and 42 months will NOT be shortened. LAMAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2014 Salty Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens have been decreed for your people and your holy city. This cannot be changed. You need to look in another direction for the days being shortened, for it does not mean what you are saying it means. In Christ Montana Marv Since our Lord Jesus Christ did... shorten the time, like HE said, then you go directly against what He said, and the Matt.24 Scripture. So you're not just disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with our Lord Jesus Christ, for there is no other way of interpretation of what He said there in Matt.24:22, "... for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened". You don't need to get testy just because you are found to be in error. OF COURSE there is another way of interpreting what Jesus said, the RIGHT interpretation. Now, let's see what Jesus REALLY said... Mat. 24 1 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened... Note that Jesus did not put a title on any period of time, such as making the entire last half of the week, "the great tribulation." That theory is man's idea, not God's. Next note that Jesus said "THOSE DAYS." The truth is, there will be "DAYS" of great tribulation. "Those days" of "great tribulation" will NOT extend to the end of the 42 months of the Beast's rule. This is the correct meaning. When God our Father decides it is enough, He will send the angels with the vials of His wrath and associated plagues, which will effectively stop the hunting down and murder of the saints, and thereby will SHORTEN "those days" of "great tribulation." "Great tribulation" will be OVER when the Beast and his armies are rendered helpless and not able to hunt down and murder the saints. OF COURSE the Beast will still have his 42 months. OF COURSE the city will be trampled for 42 months. OF COURSE the two witnesses will testify for their 1260 days - and be killed just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ENDS the 70th week. OF COURSE those fleeing will have their entire 1260 days to flee and be protected. The ONLY THING that will be "shortened" will be the number of days during that last 42 months where days of great tribulation are taking place -the hunting down and murder of the saints. The 70th week will NOT be shortened. The 1260 days and 42 months will NOT be shortened. LAMAD Well said. There are so many semantic / definition issues when using end times prophecy terms that unless they are clearly, plainly defined there will be unnecessary misunderstandings...tribulation being one of them. Context is also important. Don't disregard context. In Matthew 24 it seems to me that Jesus is talking about the tribulation of believers per verse 9: “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name." Because of the mark of the beast and other technologies, it will be difficult for believers to escape death. If those days hadn't been shortened, no "life" ("believer" per context) would be saved. As I see it...immediately after those days, the sixth seal is opened and believers are caught up, followed by the seventh seal which contains the trumpet / bowl judgments. So I agree that there is a full seven years and what is cut short is the time the believers are persecuted, the "great tribulation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Salty Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens have been decreed for your people and your holy city. This cannot be changed. You need to look in another direction for the days being shortened, for it does not mean what you are saying it means. In Christ Montana Marv Since our Lord Jesus Christ did... shorten the time, like HE said, then you go directly against what He said, and the Matt.24 Scripture. So you're not just disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with our Lord Jesus Christ, for there is no other way of interpretation of what He said there in Matt.24:22, "... for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened". You don't need to get testy just because you are found to be in error. OF COURSE there is another way of interpreting what Jesus said, the RIGHT interpretation. Now, let's see what Jesus REALLY said... Mat. 24 1 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened... Note that Jesus did not put a title on any period of time, such as making the entire last half of the week, "the great tribulation." That theory is man's idea, not God's. Next note that Jesus said "THOSE DAYS." The truth is, there will be "DAYS" of great tribulation. "Those days" of "great tribulation" will NOT extend to the end of the 42 months of the Beast's rule. This is the correct meaning. When God our Father decides it is enough, He will send the angels with the vials of His wrath and associated plagues, which will effectively stop the hunting down and murder of the saints, and thereby will SHORTEN "those days" of "great tribulation." "Great tribulation" will be OVER when the Beast and his armies are rendered helpless and not able to hunt down and murder the saints. OF COURSE the Beast will still have his 42 months. OF COURSE the city will be trampled for 42 months. OF COURSE the two witnesses will testify for their 1260 days - and be killed just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ENDS the 70th week. OF COURSE those fleeing will have their entire 1260 days to flee and be protected. The ONLY THING that will be "shortened" will be the number of days during that last 42 months where days of great tribulation are taking place -the hunting down and murder of the saints. The 70th week will NOT be shortened. The 1260 days and 42 months will NOT be shortened. LAMAD Well said. There are so many semantic / definition issues when using end times prophecy terms that unless they are clearly, plainly defined there will be unnecessary misunderstandings...tribulation being one of them. Context is also important. Don't disregard context. In Matthew 24 it seems to me that Jesus is talking about the tribulation of believers per verse 9: “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name." Because of the mark of the beast and other technologies, it will be difficult for believers to escape death. If those days hadn't been shortened, no "life" ("believer" per context) would be saved. As I see it...immediately after those days, the sixth seal is opened and believers are caught up, followed by the seventh seal which contains the trumpet / bowl judgments. So I agree that there is a full seven years and what is cut short is the time the believers are persecuted, the "great tribulation". Why would you even think of rearranging John's God given chronology? What you see is not the intent of the Author. "Those days" of "great tribulation" spoken of by Jesus will begin in Revelation in chapter 12 where Satan (using the Beast) goes after those living in Judea who have fled, having seen the abomination, and really get hot after chapter 14, when the mark is established and the image erected for all to worship. The days of great tribulation are at their highest in chapter 15 of Revelation, just before God unleases the plagues and vials. Therefore, the seals are not a part of the 70th week, and "those days" Jesus spoke of will not begin until AFTER the abomination which takes place in chapter 11 of Revelation. LAMAD Edited August 3, 2014 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2014 Well said. There are so many semantic / definition issues when using end times prophecy terms that unless they are clearly, plainly defined there will be unnecessary misunderstandings...tribulation being one of them. Context is also important. Don't disregard context. In Matthew 24 it seems to me that Jesus is talking about the tribulation of believers per verse 9: “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name." Because of the mark of the beast and other technologies, it will be difficult for believers to escape death. If those days hadn't been shortened, no "life" ("believer" per context) would be saved. As I see it...immediately after those days, the sixth seal is opened and believers are caught up, followed by the seventh seal which contains the trumpet / bowl judgments. So I agree that there is a full seven years and what is cut short is the time the believers are persecuted, the "great tribulation". Why would you even think of rearranging John's God given chronology? What you see is not the intent of the Author. "Those days" of "great tribulation" spoken of by Jesus will begin in Revelation in chapter 12 where Satan (using the Beast) goes after those living in Judea who have fled, having seen the abomination, and really get hot after chapter 14, when the mark is established and the image erected for all to worship. The days of great tribulation are at their highest in chapter 15 of Revelation, just before God unleases the plagues and vials. Therefore, the seals are not a part of the 70th week, and "those days" Jesus spoke of will not begin until AFTER the abomination which takes place in chapter 11 of Revelation. LAMAD I didn't rearrange anything, just matched it up. In Matthew 24:29 Jesus said: “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." The sixth seal is described: I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Looks like a match to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2014 Well said. There are so many semantic / definition issues when using end times prophecy terms that unless they are clearly, plainly defined there will be unnecessary misunderstandings...tribulation being one of them. Context is also important. Don't disregard context. In Matthew 24 it seems to me that Jesus is talking about the tribulation of believers per verse 9: “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name." Because of the mark of the beast and other technologies, it will be difficult for believers to escape death. If those days hadn't been shortened, no "life" ("believer" per context) would be saved. As I see it...immediately after those days, the sixth seal is opened and believers are caught up, followed by the seventh seal which contains the trumpet / bowl judgments. So I agree that there is a full seven years and what is cut short is the time the believers are persecuted, the "great tribulation". Why would you even think of rearranging John's God given chronology? What you see is not the intent of the Author. "Those days" of "great tribulation" spoken of by Jesus will begin in Revelation in chapter 12 where Satan (using the Beast) goes after those living in Judea who have fled, having seen the abomination, and really get hot after chapter 14, when the mark is established and the image erected for all to worship. The days of great tribulation are at their highest in chapter 15 of Revelation, just before God unleases the plagues and vials. Therefore, the seals are not a part of the 70th week, and "those days" Jesus spoke of will not begin until AFTER the abomination which takes place in chapter 11 of Revelation. LAMAD I didn't rearrange anything, just matched it up. In Matthew 24:29 Jesus said: “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." The sixth seal is described: I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Looks like a match to me. How does one differentiate between a blood moon, gives off reflection; and a moon which gives off no light or reflection. Then there is a miss of the 4th Trumpet where 1/3 of the sun, moon and stars are stricken, each lose 1/3 of their light. Then there is the 7th Bowl, where the cities of the nations collapse, where every island fled away, and there a no more mountains. And great hailstones fell upon men. No mention of these hailstones in the 6th Seal. There is no match, identical may be a match, similar is no match. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2014 Well said. There are so many semantic / definition issues when using end times prophecy terms that unless they are clearly, plainly defined there will be unnecessary misunderstandings...tribulation being one of them. Context is also important. Don't disregard context. In Matthew 24 it seems to me that Jesus is talking about the tribulation of believers per verse 9: “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name." Because of the mark of the beast and other technologies, it will be difficult for believers to escape death. If those days hadn't been shortened, no "life" ("believer" per context) would be saved. As I see it...immediately after those days, the sixth seal is opened and believers are caught up, followed by the seventh seal which contains the trumpet / bowl judgments. So I agree that there is a full seven years and what is cut short is the time the believers are persecuted, the "great tribulation". Why would you even think of rearranging John's God given chronology? What you see is not the intent of the Author. "Those days" of "great tribulation" spoken of by Jesus will begin in Revelation in chapter 12 where Satan (using the Beast) goes after those living in Judea who have fled, having seen the abomination, and really get hot after chapter 14, when the mark is established and the image erected for all to worship. The days of great tribulation are at their highest in chapter 15 of Revelation, just before God unleases the plagues and vials. Therefore, the seals are not a part of the 70th week, and "those days" Jesus spoke of will not begin until AFTER the abomination which takes place in chapter 11 of Revelation. LAMAD I didn't rearrange anything, just matched it up. In Matthew 24:29 Jesus said: “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." The sixth seal is described: I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Looks like a match to me. How does one differentiate between a blood moon, gives off reflection; and a moon which gives off no light or reflection. Then there is a miss of the 4th Trumpet where 1/3 of the sun, moon and stars are stricken, each lose 1/3 of their light. Then there is the 7th Bowl, where the cities of the nations collapse, where every island fled away, and there a no more mountains. And great hailstones fell upon men. No mention of these hailstones in the 6th Seal. There is no match, identical may be a match, similar is no match. In Christ Montana Marv I've really no interest in playing semantic games. How many times are the stars going to fall from the sky? Of course they're not verbatim identical but they are referring to the same event, the sixth seal. I've edited some of the orange out of the Matthew verse that may have been confusing to you. The sixth seal is a brief event. It does not encompass the trumpets or bowls of the seventh seal so I don't know why you even mentioned them. The seventh seal follows the sixth seal. As for the moon, read it like this and it all makes sense: "and the moon will not give its (normal) light." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2014 Salty What our Lord Jesus said in Matt.24 that He shortened the time has nothing to do with some theory of the earth's rotation speeding up. Yet the paradox still exists Shortening of time but yet 70 weeks has still yet to be completed. I don't see a paradox at all. Just because He said He shortened the length of the "great tribulation" doesn't mean those events of the Daniel prophecy won't happen in the order they're written. All it means is the 42 month reign of the Antichrist, the 42 months the Gentiles tread the holy city, and the 1260 days prophesying by God's two witnesses, and the persecution of His Church during the tribulation being a literal 1260 days, will all be shortened. It doesn't mean time must be speeded up to fulfill those prophecies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2014 You don't need to get testy just because you are found to be in error. OF COURSE there is another way of interpreting what Jesus said, the RIGHT interpretation. Now, let's see what Jesus REALLY said... Mat. 24 1 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened... Note that Jesus did not put a title on any period of time, such as making the entire last half of the week, "the great tribulation." That theory is man's idea, not God's. Next note that Jesus said "THOSE DAYS." The truth is, there will be "DAYS" of great tribulation. "Those days" of "great tribulation" will NOT extend to the end of the 42 months of the Beast's rule. This is the correct meaning. When God our Father decides it is enough, He will send the angels with the vials of His wrath and associated plagues, which will effectively stop the hunting down and murder of the saints, and thereby will SHORTEN "those days" of "great tribulation." "Great tribulation" will be OVER when the Beast and his armies are rendered helpless and not able to hunt down and murder the saints. OF COURSE the Beast will still have his 42 months. OF COURSE the city will be trampled for 42 months. OF COURSE the two witnesses will testify for their 1260 days - and be killed just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ENDS the 70th week. OF COURSE those fleeing will have their entire 1260 days to flee and be protected. The ONLY THING that will be "shortened" will be the number of days during that last 42 months where days of great tribulation are taking place -the hunting down and murder of the saints. The 70th week will NOT be shortened. The 1260 days and 42 months will NOT be shortened. LAMAD I'm the one who is 'testy'? I stated a Biblical fact, and even you also like marv, deny what that Scripture states as written... Matt.24:21-22 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. You left out that last part of that verse which state, "... but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." That last phrase is a direct statement by our Lord Jesus that those day "shall be shortened". But you left that out, and rather intentionally I must say, just so you could try and bear a false witness against me! It didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) You don't need to get testy just because you are found to be in error. OF COURSE there is another way of interpreting what Jesus said, the RIGHT interpretation. Now, let's see what Jesus REALLY said... Mat. 24 1 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened... Note that Jesus did not put a title on any period of time, such as making the entire last half of the week, "the great tribulation." That theory is man's idea, not God's. Next note that Jesus said "THOSE DAYS." The truth is, there will be "DAYS" of great tribulation. "Those days" of "great tribulation" will NOT extend to the end of the 42 months of the Beast's rule. This is the correct meaning. When God our Father decides it is enough, He will send the angels with the vials of His wrath and associated plagues, which will effectively stop the hunting down and murder of the saints, and thereby will SHORTEN "those days" of "great tribulation." "Great tribulation" will be OVER when the Beast and his armies are rendered helpless and not able to hunt down and murder the saints. OF COURSE the Beast will still have his 42 months. OF COURSE the city will be trampled for 42 months. OF COURSE the two witnesses will testify for their 1260 days - and be killed just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ENDS the 70th week. OF COURSE those fleeing will have their entire 1260 days to flee and be protected. The ONLY THING that will be "shortened" will be the number of days during that last 42 months where days of great tribulation are taking place -the hunting down and murder of the saints. The 70th week will NOT be shortened. The 1260 days and 42 months will NOT be shortened. LAMAD I'm the one who is 'testy'? I stated a Biblical fact, and even you also like marv, deny what that Scripture states as written... Matt.24:21-22 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. You left out that last part of that verse which state, "... but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." That last phrase is a direct statement by our Lord Jesus that those day "shall be shortened". But you left that out, and rather intentionally I must say, just so you could try and bear a false witness against me! It didn't work. My point was only that it was "days" that will be shortened. I was not concerned about WHY they were shortened. The week will not be shortened. The 42 months will not be shortened. The 1260 days will not be shortened. It is DAYS that are shortened. So your theories are still not what is written. Go read it again: it is DAYS that are shortened - the DAYS of great tribulation. The number of hours in a day will be not be shortened; The number of days when the Beast will be hunting down saints and murdering them will be shortened. After a few of the vials and plagues, his armies will be rendered helpless. LAMAD Edited August 4, 2014 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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