can you believe whatever you want?

[Enoch2021]

Yes Alpha, I would agree that there really isn't a conspiracy going on.  There may be a bias, but a scientist who is a believer can be published as long as it's sound science without supernatural elements.  Consider Jason Lisle's case (director of research at Institute for Creation Research).  A young earther can do good science as well as a Philistine!

 

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Yes Alpha, I would agree that there really isn't a conspiracy going on.

 

Based on/Supported by........?

 

scientist who is a believer can be published as long as it's sound science

 

How about, Halton "Chip" Arp?  I don't know if he was a even a "Believer", just someone who had contrary evidence to the Paradigm.

[Bonky]

Doesn't have to be vast....just @ the Top, kind of a Trickle Down via our favorite "Peer Review".  Let's paint by the numbers....What organization/institution on the planet (Bar None) attempts to cast the most doubt and then outright denial of GOD?

 

Who in Scripture displays these same attributes?

For someone who is so quick to worry about fallacies this is such an incredibly lame statement. You make it sounds like the only folks who believe in God are the ones who view God exactly as you do. The head of the human genome project was a devout Christian, he just isn't a young earth Christian. Neither Krauss nor Hawking have been telling anyone to stop believing in God, they merely state that there is no absolute need for a God to explain the Universe.

There are many people who believe in God and have absolutely no issue with evolution, deep time or the big bang etc.

[Enoch2021]

 

Doesn't have to be vast....just @ the Top, kind of a Trickle Down via our favorite "Peer Review".  Let's paint by the numbers....What organization/institution on the planet (Bar None) attempts to cast the most doubt and then outright denial of GOD?

 

Who in Scripture displays these same attributes?

For someone who is so quick to worry about fallacies this is such an incredibly lame statement. You make it sounds like the only folks who believe in God are the ones who view God exactly as you do. The head of the human genome project was a devout Christian, he just isn't a young earth Christian. Neither Krauss nor Hawking have been telling anyone to stop believing in God, they merely state that there is no absolute need for a God to explain the Universe.

There are many people who believe in God and have absolutely no issue with evolution, deep time or the big bang etc.

 

 

 

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For someone who is so quick to worry about fallacies this is such an incredibly lame statement.

 

How is my statement fallacious or lame?

 

 

You make it sounds like the only folks who believe in God are the ones who view God exactly as you do

 

How so?

 

 

The head of the human genome project was a devout Christian, he just isn't a young earth Christian.

 

That's fine, Please ask him to Validate Scientifically on "Old Earth" view.

 

 

Neither Krauss nor Hawking have been telling anyone to stop believing in God, they merely state that there is no absolute need for a God to explain the Universe.

 

Do you not see the contradiction here?

 

These are "Scientists" to you, eh?

 

Please show "their" Experimental Data supporting "their" postulates?

 

"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong."

Richard P. Feynman PhD (Nobel laureate Physics)

 

On a personal note (opinion with factual support: SEE: Laws of Thermodynamics):  Larry couldn't pass a Junior High Level Physics Class.

 

 

There are many people who believe in God and have absolutely no issue with evolution, deep time or the big bang etc.

 

That's fine; However, I'm really not interested in what they "Believe" only what they can Validate/Support. Since these (evolution, deep time, big bang, ect) are clumsily classified through Equivocation (Fallacy) as "science"....I need to see the Scientific Method employed for support.  Thanks

[Bonky]

How is my statement fallacious or lame?

It's fallacious AND lame. You're suggesting that there is some "top down" conspiracy by mainstream science to undermine belief in God. That's absurd and completely unsupported. The fact that there are many individuals that believe in God AND embrace mainstream science shows that your sentiment is false.

 

 

How so?

Aren't you suggesting that mainstream science attempts to "cast doubt" on God? I noticed you didn't bother to support your assertion.

 

That's fine, Please ask him to Validate Scientifically on "Old Earth" view.

You ask him, I couldn't care less what the answer is. My point is that there are Christians who believe in evolution and deep time. You seem to ignore these people.

 

 

Do you not see the contradiction here?

 

These are "Scientists" to you, eh?

 

Please show "their" Experimental Data supporting "their" postulates?

I couldn't care less if their views are right or wrong [for the purposes of this discussion], my point is that they are atheist scientists and their views on God are not dogmatic. They're not telling people to stop believing in God.

 

 

That's fine; However, I'm really not interested in what they "Believe" only what they can Validate/Support. Since these (evolution, deep time, big bang, ect) are clumsily classified through Equivocation (Fallacy) as "science"....I need to see the Scientific Method employed for support.  Thanks

If you know so much, why spend your time on an internet messageboard? File your objections with the scientists you so readily criticize. Stop spreading lies and deceit, that's not the trademark of a Christian.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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It's fallacious AND lame. You're suggesting that there is some "top down" conspiracy by mainstream science to undermine belief in God. That's absurd and completely unsupported. The fact that there are many individuals that believe in God AND embrace mainstream science shows that your sentiment is false.

 

If it's fallacious, post the Specific Fallacy.....?  What's the % of Atheist Secular Scientists to "Christian" Scientists? 

 

And it shows nothing of the sort...and is apparent as the air we breathe

 

Aren't you suggesting that mainstream science attempts to "cast doubt" on God? I noticed you didn't bother to support your assertion.

 

This is one of those "fog a mirror" types of "readily apparent". 

 

 

My point is that there are Christians who believe in evolution and deep time. You seem to ignore these people.

 

As I've mentioned to you numerous times, I could care less what they believe only what they can Support/Validate.

 

 

my point is that they are atheist scientists and their views on God are not dogmatic. They're not telling people to stop believing in God.

 

Some are directly, Ironically Krauss is one.  I guess you didn't see your contradiction.  There are only 2 Choices "nature" (Randomness/Materialist) and Intelligent Design "GOD"...if your supporting one; then by Proxy, you're eliminating the other.

 

 

If you know so much, why spend your time on an internet messageboard?

 

That's where the LORD has me right now.

 

 

File your objections with the scientists you so readily criticize. Stop spreading lies and deceit, that's not the trademark of a Christian.

 

Yes, I file an Objection to the Proceedings.

 

Lies and deceit, eh?  Unsupported Erroneous Assertion (Fallacy)----show one?

 

Try to dissuade yourself from proffering unsolicited advice/instruction and stick to the subject, please.  Thanks

[gray wolf]

You have to admire his fervor at least! But I wouldn't venture so far as to say scientists are equivocating.

[Bonky]

You have to admire his fervor at least! But I wouldn't venture so far as to say scientists are equivocating.

I admire many things, ignorance isn't one of them.

[Bonky]

If it's fallacious, post the Specific Fallacy.....?  What's the % of Atheist Secular Scientists to "Christian" Scientists? 

 

And it shows nothing of the sort...and is apparent as the air we breathe

Strawman and quite possibly ad hominem. You were trying to make a connection with mainstream science and the devil right?

 

 

As I've mentioned to you numerous times, I could care less what they believe only what they can Support/Validate.

You don't need to agree with them, but stop pretending they don't exist. It comes off as extreme hubris that the only valid view of God is your view.

 

 

Some are directly, Ironically Krauss is one.  I guess you didn't see your contradiction.  There are only 2 Choices "nature" (Randomness/Materialist) and Intelligent Design "GOD"...if your supporting one; then by Proxy, you're eliminating the other.

You're making the claim that mainstream science "attempts to cast doubt on God". It's absolutely untrue and completely unsupported. Someone saying "I'm not convinced there is a God" is NOT the same as "I don't believe in God and I don't want you to either".

 

 

That's where the LORD has me right now.

Then the Lord doesn't think much of your skill IMO.

 

 

Yes, I file an Objection to the Proceedings.

 

Lies and deceit, eh?  Unsupported Erroneous Assertion (Fallacy)----show one?

Where's the evidence that you object to anything of substance? I mean something beyond an internet messageboard.

 

 

Try to dissuade yourself from proffering unsolicited advice/instruction and stick to the subject, please.  Thanks

If I see someone such as yourself making a nasty claim against people who don't deserve it, I don't stand by idly. This is why I knew discussion with you was a waste of time. You're not interested in discussion, you want to fire off ridiculous claims hoping to get a pat on the back from the congregation. No more time will be spent will you, it's a complete waste.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Bonky

[Enoch2021]

 

 

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Strawman and quite possibly ad hominem.

 

It's neither.

 

 

You were trying to make a connection with mainstream science and the devil right?

 

Yes, a real reach. This is like trying to convince someone the sky is blue.

 

 

You don't need to agree with them, but stop pretending they don't exist.

 

Now this is a textbook Strawman (Fallacy)

 

 

You're making the claim that mainstream science "attempts to cast doubt on God". It's absolutely untrue and completely unsupported. Someone saying "I'm not convinced there is a God" is NOT the same as "I don't believe in God and I don't want you to either".

 

See the sky is blue comment above.  Here's just a taste:

 

Then, sometimes from the same person, you have evolution as secular religion, generally working from an explicitly materialist background and solving all of the world's major problems, from racism to education to conservation. Consider Edward O. Wilson, rightfully regarded as one of the most outstanding professional evolutionary biologists of our time, and the author of major works of straight science. In his On Human Nature, he calmly assures us that evolution is a myth that is now ready to take over Christianity.

Michael Ruse PhD: Science, March 7 2003 p. 1524

 

 

Richard Lewontin, Geneticist and evolutionary Biologist; Professor of Zoology and Professor of Biology at Harvard University...

 

‘We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.’

Richard Lewontin, ‘Billions and billions of demons’, The New York Review, January 9, 1997, p. 31.

 

"I can't prove that God doesn't exist, but I'd much rather live in a universe without one."

Larry Krauss

 

"Science is only truly consistent with an atheistic worldview with regards to the claimed miracles of the gods of Judaism, Christianity and Islam."

Larry Krauss

 

"The Bible is full of dubious scientific impossibilities, from Jonah living inside a whale, to the sun standing still in the sky for Joshua."

Larry Krauss

 

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.”

Larry Krauss

 

Do I need to go any further there Bonky?

 

 

hoping to get a pat on the back from the congregation

 

Do you have Special Mind Powers or something that you can divine others intent?

 

No more time will be spent will you, it's a complete waste.

Hope you find the TRUTH

 

[gray wolf]

Sometimes in defense of the faith (apologetics, if you will), we loose our focus.  I have done this and many have as well.  I used to debate with atheists and I realized my pride was more at stake than the gospel.  As Alistair McGrath rightly put it: apologetics is not about winning the debate, it's about winning people to Christ.  Not slamming anyone here, but sometimes we have to go back to the beginning.