CurtisCWilson Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, how many people have now pointed out to you that you are mistaken in your assertion that Adam had dominion over angels? Are you willing to learn from a host of seasoned believers? Fez, bring scripture proof. Show me through the Word of God that Adam did not have authority over all things here on earth. Nope, you are making the assertions, and so far you have not proved a thing through scripture, as all of us have been telling you over and over. This being a Christian forum, is not the Word of God the bases for what we claim? Give me scriptures that proof I am wrong. So far you have not given any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Hi ayin jade, Just popped In on your conversation to say that angels were created - `On the day that you were created....` (Ez. 28: 13) (referring to Lucifer) They were in the third heaven (1 Cor. 12 : 2) & were created before the universe - which consists of the Celestial (planets, stars etc) & atmospheric (clouds, birds etc) heavens. (Gen. 1: 14 - 18) When Lucifer was cast out of the thronal area (3rd heaven) then he took resident in the `principalities & powers` realm (Col. 1 16). He is known as the `Prince of the power of the air.` (Eph. 2: 2) This is an authority area that is invisible, & will soon be cleansed when Satan (Lucifer) is cast to the earth, limiting his power greatly. (Rev. 12: 9) Im well aware that angels are created. My question was in what way do creatures of heaven fall under dominion over the earthly creatures mentioned in the bible verses I posted. Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Did not Jesus give to us "authority" over ALL the power of the enemy? Or was he mistaken, that there is no authority that he could give us? If the Church today does not have this authority, then we are at the mercy of the devil and all evil spirits.(fallen angels) This scripture in no way says we have authority over angels, fallen or not. It says we wrestle them. Like we wrestle with sin, or pride, etc. And if you have the "authority" over angels, pray tell what you are doing to direct them right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisCWilson Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Hi ayin jade, Just popped In on your conversation to say that angels were created - `On the day that you were created....` (Ez. 28: 13) (referring to Lucifer) They were in the third heaven (1 Cor. 12 : 2) & were created before the universe - which consists of the Celestial (planets, stars etc) & atmospheric (clouds, birds etc) heavens. (Gen. 1: 14 - 18) When Lucifer was cast out of the thronal area (3rd heaven) then he took resident in the `principalities & powers` realm (Col. 1 16). He is known as the `Prince of the power of the air.` (Eph. 2: 2) This is an authority area that is invisible, & will soon be cleansed when Satan (Lucifer) is cast to the earth, limiting his power greatly. (Rev. 12: 9) Im well aware that angels are created. My question was in what way do creatures of heaven fall under dominion over the earthly creatures mentioned in the bible verses I posted. Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Did not Jesus give to us "authority" over ALL the power of the enemy? Or was he mistaken, that there is no authority that he could give us? If the Church today does not have this authority, then we are at the mercy of the devil and all evil spirits.(fallen angels) This scripture in no way says we have authority over angels, fallen or not. It says we wrestle them. Like we wrestle with sin, or pride, etc. And if you have the "authority" over angels, pray tell what you are doing to direct them right now? I am guessing you do not know the difference between fallen angels and evil spirits, or even Lucifer as the devil, or the serpent who is a fallen angel, who is our enemy. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. Do you even believe this? Edited August 30, 2014 by CurtisCWilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Hi ayin jade, Just popped In on your conversation to say that angels were created - `On the day that you were created....` (Ez. 28: 13) (referring to Lucifer) They were in the third heaven (1 Cor. 12 : 2) & were created before the universe - which consists of the Celestial (planets, stars etc) & atmospheric (clouds, birds etc) heavens. (Gen. 1: 14 - 18) When Lucifer was cast out of the thronal area (3rd heaven) then he took resident in the `principalities & powers` realm (Col. 1 16). He is known as the `Prince of the power of the air.` (Eph. 2: 2) This is an authority area that is invisible, & will soon be cleansed when Satan (Lucifer) is cast to the earth, limiting his power greatly. (Rev. 12: 9) Im well aware that angels are created. My question was in what way do creatures of heaven fall under dominion over the earthly creatures mentioned in the bible verses I posted. Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Did not Jesus give to us "authority" over ALL the power of the enemy? Or was he mistaken, that there is no authority that he could give us? If the Church today does not have this authority, then we are at the mercy of the devil and all evil spirits.(fallen angels) This scripture in no way says we have authority over angels, fallen or not. It says we wrestle them. Like we wrestle with sin, or pride, etc. And if you have the "authority" over angels, pray tell what you are doing to direct them right now? I am guessing you do not know the difference between fallen angels and evil spirits, or even Lucifer as the devil, or the serpent who is a fallen angel, who is our enemy. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. Do you even believe this? Curtis, you seem confused, and as Shiloh has already pointed out, you a vacillating between scriptures to try and justify an answer. No sweat, some threads just go this way.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisCWilson Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Hi ayin jade, Just popped In on your conversation to say that angels were created - `On the day that you were created....` (Ez. 28: 13) (referring to Lucifer) They were in the third heaven (1 Cor. 12 : 2) & were created before the universe - which consists of the Celestial (planets, stars etc) & atmospheric (clouds, birds etc) heavens. (Gen. 1: 14 - 18) When Lucifer was cast out of the thronal area (3rd heaven) then he took resident in the `principalities & powers` realm (Col. 1 16). He is known as the `Prince of the power of the air.` (Eph. 2: 2) This is an authority area that is invisible, & will soon be cleansed when Satan (Lucifer) is cast to the earth, limiting his power greatly. (Rev. 12: 9) Im well aware that angels are created. My question was in what way do creatures of heaven fall under dominion over the earthly creatures mentioned in the bible verses I posted. Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Did not Jesus give to us "authority" over ALL the power of the enemy? Or was he mistaken, that there is no authority that he could give us? If the Church today does not have this authority, then we are at the mercy of the devil and all evil spirits.(fallen angels) This scripture in no way says we have authority over angels, fallen or not. It says we wrestle them. Like we wrestle with sin, or pride, etc. And if you have the "authority" over angels, pray tell what you are doing to direct them right now? I am guessing you do not know the difference between fallen angels and evil spirits, or even Lucifer as the devil, or the serpent who is a fallen angel, who is our enemy. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. Do you even believe this? Curtis, you seem confused, and as Shiloh has already pointed out, you a vacillating between scriptures to try and justify an answer. No sweat, some threads just go this way.. I hate to tell you the Word of God is eternal. It never goes away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, are you aware that angels are not part of creation..... they were already here singing along and shouting as God created the universe... Are "angels" created beings? Are they not a part of the works of God's hands? Did they not rebel against God and were cast down to this earth? Did not Adam have "authority" and "dominion" over all the earth, and over all the works of God's hands? Yes! Nowhere in the Bible did any human being other than Jesus ever exercised authority over angels. So to say that man has authority over angels is going outside of Scripture. Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. What a weak response. Jesus gave temporary authority over demons to His disciples. That does not support your actual argument that mankind has authority over the angelic realm. Sorry but you have pretty much shown that you cannot support your original argument. Man had NO authority over angels and never has. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. This was given to 72 followers of Jesus. Jesus never took back this power from them. Does Christ have "authority" over angels? If he does, then we also have the same authority because he lives in us as our new life!!!!! It is no longer "I" that liveth but Christ!!!! This is wrong for several reasons: 1. You original argument was that mankind has authority over angels, which is something the Bible never says. So you have apparently abandoned that argument since you can't prove it. 2. Lue 10:20 was a special situation and does not apply to us. It was limited and temporary authority over demons for the duration of the ministry Jesus gave to those men. it was not for all people for all time. Jesus has authority over angels but He has not transferred that authority to us. It does not follow that because Jesus lives in us that we have the same authority over demons or angels that He has. Jesus also has the authority to raise the dead and has the power to absolve sin. That authority has not been given to us. No one would dare argue that the same authority to absolve sin that Jesus has is also ours simply because Jesus lives in us. Sorry but your position isn't biblical and doesn't reflect the doctrine of the NT. I can not help you if you decide not to believe the Word of God. That is between you and God. You are the one who doesn't believe the Bible. You are twisting Scripture to say what it never intended to say. I given scripture for every thing I have said and you have not been able to provide any to make your claims. You have provided Scripture that you twist and contort to fit your unbiblical agenda. The Bible doesn't support your postion, so you mishandle Scripture and by the way, NO ONE on here believes what you say. In case you haven't noticed, no one accepts your position because your position isn't biblical Who do suppose we are to believe you or the Word of God? We believe the Bible. We just don't believe in how you are handling the Scriptures. You have provided NO Scripture that says that mankind has authority over angels. your position isn't based on the Bible and is false doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisCWilson Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, are you aware that angels are not part of creation..... they were already here singing along and shouting as God created the universe... Are "angels" created beings? Are they not a part of the works of God's hands? Did they not rebel against God and were cast down to this earth? Did not Adam have "authority" and "dominion" over all the earth, and over all the works of God's hands? Yes! Nowhere in the Bible did any human being other than Jesus ever exercised authority over angels. So to say that man has authority over angels is going outside of Scripture. Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. What a weak response. Jesus gave temporary authority over demons to His disciples. That does not support your actual argument that mankind has authority over the angelic realm. Sorry but you have pretty much shown that you cannot support your original argument. Man had NO authority over angels and never has. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. This was given to 72 followers of Jesus. Jesus never took back this power from them. Does Christ have "authority" over angels? If he does, then we also have the same authority because he lives in us as our new life!!!!! It is no longer "I" that liveth but Christ!!!! This is wrong for several reasons: 1. You original argument was that mankind has authority over angels, which is something the Bible never says. So you have apparently abandoned that argument since you can't prove it. 2. Lue 10:20 was a special situation and does not apply to us. It was limited and temporary authority over demons for the duration of the ministry Jesus gave to those men. it was not for all people for all time. Jesus has authority over angels but He has not transferred that authority to us. It does not follow that because Jesus lives in us that we have the same authority over demons or angels that He has. Jesus also has the authority to raise the dead and has the power to absolve sin. That authority has not been given to us. No one would dare argue that the same authority to absolve sin that Jesus has is also ours simply because Jesus lives in us. Sorry but your position isn't biblical and doesn't reflect the doctrine of the NT. I can not help you if you decide not to believe the Word of God. That is between you and God. You are the one who doesn't believe the Bible. You are twisting Scripture to say what it never intended to say. I given scripture for every thing I have said and you have not been able to provide any to make your claims. You have provided Scripture that you twist and contort to fit your unbiblical agenda. The Bible doesn't support your postion, so you mishandle Scripture and by the way, NO ONE on here believes what you say. In case you haven't noticed, no one accepts your position because your position isn't biblical Who do suppose we are to believe you or the Word of God? We believe the Bible. We just don't believe in how you are handling the Scriptures. You have provided NO Scripture that says that mankind has authority over angels. your position isn't based on the Bible and is false doctrine. I can not make you believe the truth, that is your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,167 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,892 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2014 the mind is a dangerous thing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, are you aware that angels are not part of creation..... they were already here singing along and shouting as God created the universe... Are "angels" created beings? Are they not a part of the works of God's hands? Did they not rebel against God and were cast down to this earth? Did not Adam have "authority" and "dominion" over all the earth, and over all the works of God's hands? Yes! Nowhere in the Bible did any human being other than Jesus ever exercised authority over angels. So to say that man has authority over angels is going outside of Scripture. Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. What a weak response. Jesus gave temporary authority over demons to His disciples. That does not support your actual argument that mankind has authority over the angelic realm. Sorry but you have pretty much shown that you cannot support your original argument. Man had NO authority over angels and never has. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. This was given to 72 followers of Jesus. Jesus never took back this power from them. Does Christ have "authority" over angels? If he does, then we also have the same authority because he lives in us as our new life!!!!! It is no longer "I" that liveth but Christ!!!! This is wrong for several reasons: 1. You original argument was that mankind has authority over angels, which is something the Bible never says. So you have apparently abandoned that argument since you can't prove it. 2. Lue 10:20 was a special situation and does not apply to us. It was limited and temporary authority over demons for the duration of the ministry Jesus gave to those men. it was not for all people for all time. Jesus has authority over angels but He has not transferred that authority to us. It does not follow that because Jesus lives in us that we have the same authority over demons or angels that He has. Jesus also has the authority to raise the dead and has the power to absolve sin. That authority has not been given to us. No one would dare argue that the same authority to absolve sin that Jesus has is also ours simply because Jesus lives in us. Sorry but your position isn't biblical and doesn't reflect the doctrine of the NT. I can not help you if you decide not to believe the Word of God. That is between you and God. You are the one who doesn't believe the Bible. You are twisting Scripture to say what it never intended to say. I given scripture for every thing I have said and you have not been able to provide any to make your claims. You have provided Scripture that you twist and contort to fit your unbiblical agenda. The Bible doesn't support your postion, so you mishandle Scripture and by the way, NO ONE on here believes what you say. In case you haven't noticed, no one accepts your position because your position isn't biblical Who do suppose we are to believe you or the Word of God? We believe the Bible. We just don't believe in how you are handling the Scriptures. You have provided NO Scripture that says that mankind has authority over angels. your position isn't based on the Bible and is false doctrine. I can not make you believe the truth, that is your decision. You haven't provided any truth. You have no truth offer up to this point. We reject your false doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,167 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,892 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts