CurtisCWilson Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, how many people have now pointed out to you that you are mistaken in your assertion that Adam had dominion over angels? Are you willing to learn from a host of seasoned believers? Fez, bring scripture proof. Show me through the Word of God that Adam did not have authority over all things here on earth. Nope, you are making the assertions, and so far you have not proved a thing through scripture, as all of us have been telling you over and over. How many times do I need repost scripture before you see it? If you dont see it by now, reposting will do no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisCWilson Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, are you aware that angels are not part of creation..... they were already here singing along and shouting as God created the universe... Are "angels" created beings? Are they not a part of the works of God's hands? Did they not rebel against God and were cast down to this earth? Did not Adam have "authority" and "dominion" over all the earth, and over all the works of God's hands? Yes! Nowhere in the Bible did any human being other than Jesus ever exercised authority over angels. So to say that man has authority over angels is going outside of Scripture. Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. What a weak response. Jesus gave temporary authority over demons to His disciples. That does not support your actual argument that mankind has authority over the angelic realm. Sorry but you have pretty much shown that you cannot support your original argument. Man had NO authority over angels and never has. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. This was given to 72 followers of Jesus. Jesus never took back this power from them. Does Christ have "authority" over angels? If he does, then we also have the same authority because he lives in us as our new life!!!!! It is no longer "I" that liveth but Christ!!!! This is wrong for several reasons: 1. You original argument was that mankind has authority over angels, which is something the Bible never says. So you have apparently abandoned that argument since you can't prove it. 2. Lue 10:20 was a special situation and does not apply to us. It was limited and temporary authority over demons for the duration of the ministry Jesus gave to those men. it was not for all people for all time. Jesus has authority over angels but He has not transferred that authority to us. It does not follow that because Jesus lives in us that we have the same authority over demons or angels that He has. Jesus also has the authority to raise the dead and has the power to absolve sin. That authority has not been given to us. No one would dare argue that the same authority to absolve sin that Jesus has is also ours simply because Jesus lives in us. Sorry but your position isn't biblical and doesn't reflect the doctrine of the NT. I can not help you if you decide not to believe the Word of God. That is between you and God. You are the one who doesn't believe the Bible. You are twisting Scripture to say what it never intended to say. I given scripture for every thing I have said and you have not been able to provide any to make your claims. You have provided Scripture that you twist and contort to fit your unbiblical agenda. The Bible doesn't support your postion, so you mishandle Scripture and by the way, NO ONE on here believes what you say. In case you haven't noticed, no one accepts your position because your position isn't biblical Who do suppose we are to believe you or the Word of God? We believe the Bible. We just don't believe in how you are handling the Scriptures. You have provided NO Scripture that says that mankind has authority over angels. your position isn't based on the Bible and is false doctrine. I can not make you believe the truth, that is your decision. You haven't provided any truth. You have no truth offer up to this point. We reject your false doctrine. Anyone reading this thread will see clearly that all you have done is give your opinion without bring forth scripture that disproves what scripture clearly says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisCWilson Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; This seems to be impossible to do unless one has "authority" to cast out devils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coheir Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,458 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 729 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1950 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, how many people have now pointed out to you that you are mistaken in your assertion that Adam had dominion over angels? Are you willing to learn from a host of seasoned believers? Fez, bring scripture proof. Show me through the Word of God that Adam did not have authority over all things here on earth. Nope, you are making the assertions, and so far you have not proved a thing through scripture, as all of us have been telling you over and over. How many times do I need repost scripture before you see it? If you dont see it by now, reposting will do no good. you are applying scripture to Adam that was only for Jesus disciples and no one else. Second Adam would not know he had power over angels unless God spoke that to him and those words are not in Genesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; This seems to be impossible to do unless one has "authority" to cast out devils. Yeah, but your original argument is that mankind has authority over angels, not merely demons. You seem to be using a bait and switch argument. First of all man has no inherent authority over the angels. They are not the works of God's hands that man was given dominion over and the Bible is very clear on that Psalm 5 makes it clear that the works of God's hands over which man has dominion are all earthly beings and objects, not anything heavenly. When God gave Adam dominion in Genesis 1 it was limited to the earth and all it has in it, not angels. You are trying to prove that mankind has authority over angels in general, but you can't provide anything except conditional authority over demons and not angels as a whole. So you are unable to actually support your position with Scripture. temporal and conditional authority over demons doesn't prove that God gave mankind authority over all angelic beings. You simply cannot make your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,167 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,891 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; This seems to be impossible to do unless one has "authority" to cast out devils.devils are not angels.... and even in casting out demons, you have to do that in the name of Jesus or they will laugh in your face. But angels are a whole different story as I have tried to tell you and show you for several days now. Edited September 4, 2014 by OneLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisCWilson Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, how many people have now pointed out to you that you are mistaken in your assertion that Adam had dominion over angels? Are you willing to learn from a host of seasoned believers? Fez, bring scripture proof. Show me through the Word of God that Adam did not have authority over all things here on earth. Nope, you are making the assertions, and so far you have not proved a thing through scripture, as all of us have been telling you over and over. How many times do I need repost scripture before you see it? If you dont see it by now, reposting will do no good. you are applying scripture to Adam that was only for Jesus disciples and no one else. Second Adam would not know he had power over angels unless God spoke that to him and those words are not in Genesis. Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. Did Jesus have "authority" over ALL devils, evil spirits (fallen angels)? Are you a believer? Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. Is there anything you can think of that God forgot to place under man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisCWilson Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; This seems to be impossible to do unless one has "authority" to cast out devils. Yeah, but your original argument is that mankind has authority over angels, not merely demons. You seem to be using a bait and switch argument. First of all man has no inherent authority over the angels. They are not the works of God's hands that man was given dominion over and the Bible is very clear on that Psalm 5 makes it clear that the works of God's hands over which man has dominion are all earthly beings and objects, not anything heavenly. When God gave Adam dominion in Genesis 1 it was limited to the earth and all it has in it, not angels. You are trying to prove that mankind has authority over angels in general, but you can't provide anything except conditional authority over demons and not angels as a whole. So you are unable to actually support your position with Scripture. temporal and conditional authority over demons doesn't prove that God gave mankind authority over all angelic beings. You simply cannot make your case. Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. You too are trying to assume God forgot to place something under Adam's "dominion" Adam had dominion over every thing except the devil (fallen angel)l. Now that is just not good thinking and is unscriptural. Edited August 30, 2014 by CurtisCWilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; This seems to be impossible to do unless one has "authority" to cast out devils. Yeah, but your original argument is that mankind has authority over angels, not merely demons. You seem to be using a bait and switch argument. First of all man has no inherent authority over the angels. They are not the works of God's hands that man was given dominion over and the Bible is very clear on that Psalm 5 makes it clear that the works of God's hands over which man has dominion are all earthly beings and objects, not anything heavenly. When God gave Adam dominion in Genesis 1 it was limited to the earth and all it has in it, not angels. You are trying to prove that mankind has authority over angels in general, but you can't provide anything except conditional authority over demons and not angels as a whole. So you are unable to actually support your position with Scripture. temporal and conditional authority over demons doesn't prove that God gave mankind authority over all angelic beings. You simply cannot make your case. Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. You too are trying to assume God forgot to place something under Adam's "dominion" Adam had dominion over every thing except the devil (fallen angel)l. Now that is just not good thinking and is unscriptural. That passage in Hebrews is talking specifically about Jesus. The writer is applying this as a Messianic prophecy about Jesus and is not using this in reference to mankind. Look at the context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisCWilson Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Curtis, how many people have now pointed out to you that you are mistaken in your assertion that Adam had dominion over angels? Are you willing to learn from a host of seasoned believers? Fez, bring scripture proof. Show me through the Word of God that Adam did not have authority over all things here on earth. Nope, you are making the assertions, and so far you have not proved a thing through scripture, as all of us have been telling you over and over. How many times do I need repost scripture before you see it? If you dont see it by now, reposting will do no good. you are applying scripture to Adam that was only for Jesus disciples and no one else. Second Adam would not know he had power over angels unless God spoke that to him and those words are not in Genesis. Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. Is there anything you can think of that God forgot to place under man? That passage in Hebrews is talking specifically about Jesus. The writer is applying this as a Messianic prophecy about Jesus and is not using this in reference to mankind. Look at the context. Read it again. it is talking about "man" and the "Son of man" both! The first Adam, and the last Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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