ARGOSY Posted September 17, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted September 17, 2014 How to show that the seals, trumpets and vials are three different events, each having their own seven events in them? The only way I can do this is with an analogy, since people do not accept how it is laid out in scripture. There is a door in front of me with a sign on it that says "Seals". The door is open and I walk through. As I continue to walk, I see seven separate events unfolding, starting with the first seal and ending with the seventh seal, which the events I witnessed was alarming. At the end of the seventh seal, I saw another door that is now open, titled Trumpets. I walk through the door and as I continue to walk, I see seven more events unfold before me, starting with the first and ending with the seventh. These events were shocking, much more then the first seven seals events. During these events, I was also shown what took place, what is taking place and what will take place. At the end, I see another door titled Vials/Bowls. I walk through this door and as I continued to the end, I witness seven more events. These events are devastating, the wrath of God being poured out onto the unbelieving world. At the end of this I heard a loud voice claim “It is done!”, then another door appeared titled The Millennium, which was opened to walk through. How scripture is written shows the seventh seal opens the first trumpet, and the seventh trumpet the first vial/bowl. The are not opened side by side, but in sequence. Some of the events may sound similar, but that does not equate that they are the same. Just as a parent punishes a child for continuing to misbehave, so is God punishing His creation. At first, the parent talks to the child until it is evident the child is not listening, so a warning is given ... do this again and I will have to punish you. When the child does it again, the child receives an easy punishment to get their attention. When they refuse correction, the same punishment is given, but more severely. When the child still refuses correction, the same punishment is delivered with even more severity. Each is the same kind of punishment, but they are all delivered at different times with increasing severity. So are the events in the seals, trumpets and vials/bowls. Of course these "consecutive visions" are easy to understand, without need for an analogy. I just feel the text itself is showing 3 visions leading up to the second coming, instead of one long vision of ~21 events leading up to the second coming. If this 6th seal event isn't the second coming, what event is it: Rev 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their[g]wrath has come, and who can withstand it? Also if this 7th trumpet event is not the second coming, what event is it: Rev 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.” The 6th seal is EXACTLY what John portrays it to be: the "opening salvo" of the Day of the Lord. Not as easy to see, but still truth, it is also Paul's "sudden destruction." The 7th trumpet is also exactly what John portrays it to be: the MARKER for the midpoint of the week. It is the END of 6000 years of man ruling the earth and the beginning of the 1000 years of God ruling the earth. God is not a liar. God gave the ruler-ship, authority and dominion of this planet to Adam, and when Satan deceived Eve and Adam sinned, Satan USURPED Adam's authority and became the "god of this present world." John shows us that at the 7th trumpet Satan's ruler-ship ENDS and the kingdoms of the world are transferred to Jesus Christ the KING. There is nothing here that even hints at a "coming" of the Lord. All this will take place in the supreme court of LAW, IN HEAVEN. LAMAD Aah so you are saying the 7th trumpet is the "marker for the midpoint of the week". So let me clarify, the kingdom of the world becomes Christ's at the midpoint of the week? Interesting!? 15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.” It is far more than "the middle of the week. It is also the changing from one Millennium to another. This is the beginning of the Millennial reign of Christ. However, He has given the Beast 42 months of authority, and will NEVER go back on His word: the beast will have His 42 months. Did you ever stop to think, God would not have any authority to destroy the world as long as Satan was the god of this world. It is at the 7th trumpet that the ruler-ship of the world changes: Satan loses and Jesus wins, and the kingdoms are transferred to Jesus. LAMAD I'm starting to get very confused now. So we seem to be in agreement that at the 7th trumpet , the kingdom of this world becomes Christ's. Now you seem to be saying that the millenial rule of Christ occurs here at the 7th trumpet, but you also seem to be saying that the beast rules during the first 42 months of Christ's rule? Do I understand you correctly? And you say that the bowls of wrath occur AFTER the seventh trumpet, so this would also place the bowls of wrath during Christ's rule, which frankly sounds very wrong that God's wrath would our out on earth during the period that Christ rules the earth. I think its time you take a deep breath and start to reconsider your "consecutive" view of Revelation. If Christ rules from the 7th trumpet as per Rev 11:15 then this makes it impossible for the bowls of wrath to pour out on earth after the 7th trumpet because there is no reason for God to pour out bowls of wrath during Christ's rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted September 17, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 17, 2014 If this is NOT one long vision, please pick out place where you see one vision ending and another beginning. I find 6 place where John used something like "after this" I saw... It seems much more likely to me that this is one long vision. But even if it is not, it makes more sense that God would put things in sequence, as He did in Mathew 24. If the day of the Lord does not START with the 6th seal, then where do you see the beginning? It seems you find several endings but you beginning. When Paul mentions the day of the Lord, He certainly ties it to the rapture. I think you and I agree there. But we disagree as to when that is. I don't think you have answered the impossible question to answer for your theory: HOW and WHEN will you get to the marriage and supper? Was it your theory that He comes TWICE at the end; first to take His bride to the marriage, and then He comes again for the battle of Armageddon? LAMAD I'm not sure what you mean about putting "things in sequence". If Revelation is a series of visions about the end-times, then they could overlap and not be in a time sequence. Rev 1-3 a prophetic message to the churches Rev 4 a vision of heaven Rev 5 until Rev 8:1 a vision about the 7 seals ending with the second coming (seal 6) and silence in heaven (seal 7) Rev 8:2 - Rev 11 a vision about the 7 angels with 7 trumpets ending with the second coming (kingdoms belong to Christ) Rev 12 vision about Satan and Israel also focussing on the great tribulation (3.5 years) Rev 13 vision about the beast , also focussing on the great tribulation (3.5 years) Rev 14 vision about various end-times events Rev 15-16 vision about the seven bowls of wrath ending in Armageddon and the great earthquake (second coming events) Rev 17-21 vision starting with the beast and whore city (Rev 17/18), Rev19 refers to the 2nd coming, and Rev 20-21 after the 2nd coming Context shows us that a new vision is introduced. Sometimes the phrase "and then I saw" indicates the new vision, but sometimes its only the new context and new symbols which indicate that its a new vision. So in total, I believe there are 9 separate visions, the first two are not focussed on the end-times, the other 7 concern various aspects of the end-times. (Satan's role/ antichrist's role /the evil city's role/ Armageddon/ seals / trumpets/ bowls) Putting things in sequence, in my mind, is the time sequence that events will happen when they begin to take place. For example, the beginning of the 70th week written before the end of the week. The midpoint of the week before the end of the week. If we read most history books, then begin with older events and end up with more recent events. If we read about Word War 2, most books would be written in time sequence, and events took place from 1939 on through 1945. When Jesus gave his Olivet Discourse on the end times, he began with the church age, then jumped right into the middle of the 70th week with the abomination, then the days of great tribulation, and finally His coming after the days of great tribulation. In other words, Jesus spoke of these events in the same order in which they will take place. in Rev 1, John is before Jesus, and is told to write. Chapters 2-3 are Messages he is to write to each church of the 7 churches Jesus mentioned. In chapter 4 we see a transition: John wrote, " After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven..." John is in fact called up to heaven to be shown things to come. "And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven..." This is the beginning of His vision, in my opinion. In chapers 4 and 5 it is a vision that was history to John, because John saw in this vision the moment Jesus ascended back into heaven, around 32 AD. This vision of the throne room does not end, for John sees Jesus begin to break the seals. At that point in time, the first 5 seals had already been broken in reality, since it was around 95 AD and the church had been sent out around 60 years previous to John seeing this vision. I believe the vision turned to the future for John between the 5th and 6th seal. In fact, I think that is still where we are today. But this vision does not end. In chapter 7 the same vision continues: " And after these things I saw four angels...." John uses a phrase like this as a transitional phrase 5 or 6 times in Revelation. Is this a NEW vision? I don't think so. He is continuing to see the same vision. John takes an active part in this vision, speaking with someone. Chapter 8 begins "And when he had opened the seventh seal." I still don't see a break in the first vision; it is just continuing. The same vision continues with John seeing the first 6 trumpets. John wrote in 9:17, "And thus I saw the horses in the vision..." According to John, it is the same vision. I just cannot see different visions with breaks between. I believe this is one long vision, written in the exact order in which these things will take place. As you said, our views are too far apart. Time will soon show us in reality the events John wrote about. LAMAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 18, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2014 You have a problem then, because of the events of 5th & 6th trumpets definitely are about tribulation timing when God's people here on earth go through a time of persecution, and that is not the time of God's wrath that's to occur with the day of Christ's return. Likewise all the way to the 7th vial, the dragon is still in power upon the earth, meaning the event of God's cup of wrath on the day of The Lord with Christ's coming won't happen until the 7th vial. God's wrath through His Son on the day of His return is what that 6th Seal event is about which ends this present world, along with the dragon's reign and the tribulation time. Salty I have no problem: For I see ALL the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets, and 7 Bowls unfolding in the final 3 1/2 years of the final 70th Week which is yet to come. I say the Dragon is in control for the final 3 1/2 years per Rev 12:13. Who then is control for the first 3 1/2 years? The beast with the fatal wound in Rev 13:5, which exercise his authority for 3 1/2 years, also which was thrown alive into the Lake of Fire with the False Prophet . per Rev 19:20. Prior to Armageddon. I see the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls all in sequential order. First 2 years of the final 3 1/2 years are the Seal Judgments, The next one year are the Trumpet Judgments, and the final 6 months are the Bowl Judgments. That is how I see them unfolding. In Christ Montana Marv I only count 7 signs our Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet Discourse for the end, which parallel the 6 seals of Rev.6. The last sign He gave was that of His coming and gathering of His saints. When we get to His Revelation, those 7 signs become more detailed with 21 descriptions (7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 vials). It's still only 7 main signs even in Revelation. Understanding that then begins to reveal a parallel timing between the seals, trumpets, and vials. When 7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th vial is reached, it is all over with the time of Christ's return, the gathering, and His reign over all the earth beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted September 19, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2014 You have a problem then, because of the events of 5th & 6th trumpets definitely are about tribulation timing when God's people here on earth go through a time of persecution, and that is not the time of God's wrath that's to occur with the day of Christ's return. Likewise all the way to the 7th vial, the dragon is still in power upon the earth, meaning the event of God's cup of wrath on the day of The Lord with Christ's coming won't happen until the 7th vial. God's wrath through His Son on the day of His return is what that 6th Seal event is about which ends this present world, along with the dragon's reign and the tribulation time. Salty I have no problem: For I see ALL the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets, and 7 Bowls unfolding in the final 3 1/2 years of the final 70th Week which is yet to come. I say the Dragon is in control for the final 3 1/2 years per Rev 12:13. Who then is control for the first 3 1/2 years? The beast with the fatal wound in Rev 13:5, which exercise his authority for 3 1/2 years, also which was thrown alive into the Lake of Fire with the False Prophet . per Rev 19:20. Prior to Armageddon. I see the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls all in sequential order. First 2 years of the final 3 1/2 years are the Seal Judgments, The next one year are the Trumpet Judgments, and the final 6 months are the Bowl Judgments. That is how I see them unfolding. In Christ Montana Marv I only count 7 signs our Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet Discourse for the end, which parallel the 6 seals of Rev.6. The last sign He gave was that of His coming and gathering of His saints. When we get to His Revelation, those 7 signs become more detailed with 21 descriptions (7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 vials). It's still only 7 main signs even in Revelation. Understanding that then begins to reveal a parallel timing between the seals, trumpets, and vials. When 7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th vial is reached, it is all over with the time of Christ's return, the gathering, and His reign over all the earth beginning. Salty Most of the 7 signs of the Olivet Discourse are happening now. 1. Many claiming to be Christ, 2. Wars and rumors of wars, 3. Nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, 4. Famines and earthquakes in various places. These are the beginning of birth pains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death (ongoing for the Church); and you will be hated by all nations because of me. We our biased against that which is not of the Truth, and the world hates us for this. Morality vs Immorality. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other. Now this corresponds to 2 Thes 3 - Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed; and 2 Tim 3 - But mark this, There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents.....(sounds like today) and 1 Tim 4:1 - The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons... And many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Yet there is one true False Prophet Rev 13:11-17. The 7 signs of the Olivet Discourse have nothing to do with the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 19, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2014 Salty Most of the 7 signs of the Olivet Discourse are happening now. 1. Many claiming to be Christ, 2. Wars and rumors of wars, 3. Nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, 4. Famines and earthquakes in various places. These are the beginning of birth pains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death (ongoing for the Church); and you will be hated by all nations because of me. We our biased against that which is not of the Truth, and the world hates us for this. Morality vs Immorality. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other. Now this corresponds to 2 Thes 3 - Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed; and 2 Tim 3 - But mark this, There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents.....(sounds like today) and 1 Tim 4:1 - The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons... And many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Yet there is one true False Prophet Rev 13:11-17. The 7 signs of the Olivet Discourse have nothing to do with the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. In Christ Montana Marv Yes, I agree the beginning of sorrows is getting ready to happen today, and there's been many antichrists already, and there's still wars and rumors of wars. But those 7 signs He gave us are directly related to the seals in Rev.6. 1st (assumed) Seal = Mark 13:5-6 to not let any man deceive us, compared to the rider on the white horse who is an imposter. 2nd Seal = Mark 13:7 and part of v.8 about wars and rumors of wars compared with the red horse with a great sword to take peace from the earth. 3rd Seal = Mark 13:8 earthquakes, famines, and troubles compared to the black horse with balances pointing to a time when it costs a full day's wages to buy a loaf of bread, pointing to famines, lack of necessities. 4th Seal = Mark 13:8 continued, compared with the pale horse, kill with the sword, with hunger, with death, and beasts of the earth. 5th Seal = Mark 13:9-13 = delivering up of the saints to be killed as those in their deceased fellowservants were. 6th Seal = Mark 13:2 and Mark 13:24-27 = stars falling, and time of Christ's second coming to gather His saints that are still alive on earth; every mountain and island move out of their places compared with not one stone on top of another in Mark 13:2. The only sign missing in Rev.6 is the setting up of the "abomination of desolation", which is actually covered with that rider on the white horse, an imposter (the Antichrist) trying to mimic Christ's second coming on a white horse per Rev.19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted September 19, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2014 Salty Most of the 7 signs of the Olivet Discourse are happening now. 1. Many claiming to be Christ, 2. Wars and rumors of wars, 3. Nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, 4. Famines and earthquakes in various places. These are the beginning of birth pains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death (ongoing for the Church); and you will be hated by all nations because of me. We our biased against that which is not of the Truth, and the world hates us for this. Morality vs Immorality. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other. Now this corresponds to 2 Thes 3 - Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed; and 2 Tim 3 - But mark this, There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents.....(sounds like today) and 1 Tim 4:1 - The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons... And many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Yet there is one true False Prophet Rev 13:11-17. The 7 signs of the Olivet Discourse have nothing to do with the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. In Christ Montana Marv Yes, I agree the beginning of sorrows is getting ready to happen today, and there's been many antichrists already, and there's still wars and rumors of wars. But those 7 signs He gave us are directly related to the seals in Rev.6. 1st (assumed) Seal = Mark 13:5-6 to not let any man deceive us, compared to the rider on the white horse who is an imposter. 2nd Seal = Mark 13:7 and part of v.8 about wars and rumors of wars compared with the red horse with a great sword to take peace from the earth. 3rd Seal = Mark 13:8 earthquakes, famines, and troubles compared to the black horse with balances pointing to a time when it costs a full day's wages to buy a loaf of bread, pointing to famines, lack of necessities. 4th Seal = Mark 13:8 continued, compared with the pale horse, kill with the sword, with hunger, with death, and beasts of the earth. 5th Seal = Mark 13:9-13 = delivering up of the saints to be killed as those in their deceased fellowservants were. 6th Seal = Mark 13:2 and Mark 13:24-27 = stars falling, and time of Christ's second coming to gather His saints that are still alive on earth; every mountain and island move out of their places compared with not one stone on top of another in Mark 13:2. The only sign missing in Rev.6 is the setting up of the "abomination of desolation", which is actually covered with that rider on the white horse, an imposter (the Antichrist) trying to mimic Christ's second coming on a white horse per Rev.19. As I have said, None of the Seals, Trumpets or Bowls have been opened, Therefore the Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with them, because these signs have being happening already. Wars and rumors of wars (ongoing), nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom (ongoing), earthquakes and famines (ongoing), false prophets (ongoing); Yet when the real False Prophet makes his appearance, no other false prophets will be around. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted September 19, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,204 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted September 19, 2014 So true, Montana Marv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 20, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 20, 2014 Yes, I agree the beginning of sorrows is getting ready to happen today, and there's been many antichrists already, and there's still wars and rumors of wars. But those 7 signs He gave us are directly related to the seals in Rev.6. 1st (assumed) Seal = Mark 13:5-6 to not let any man deceive us, compared to the rider on the white horse who is an imposter. 2nd Seal = Mark 13:7 and part of v.8 about wars and rumors of wars compared with the red horse with a great sword to take peace from the earth. 3rd Seal = Mark 13:8 earthquakes, famines, and troubles compared to the black horse with balances pointing to a time when it costs a full day's wages to buy a loaf of bread, pointing to famines, lack of necessities. 4th Seal = Mark 13:8 continued, compared with the pale horse, kill with the sword, with hunger, with death, and beasts of the earth. 5th Seal = Mark 13:9-13 = delivering up of the saints to be killed as those in their deceased fellowservants were. 6th Seal = Mark 13:2 and Mark 13:24-27 = stars falling, and time of Christ's second coming to gather His saints that are still alive on earth; every mountain and island move out of their places compared with not one stone on top of another in Mark 13:2. The only sign missing in Rev.6 is the setting up of the "abomination of desolation", which is actually covered with that rider on the white horse, an imposter (the Antichrist) trying to mimic Christ's second coming on a white horse per Rev.19. As I have said, None of the Seals, Trumpets or Bowls have been opened, Therefore the Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with them, because these signs have being happening already. Wars and rumors of wars (ongoing), nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom (ongoing), earthquakes and famines (ongoing), false prophets (ongoing); Yet when the real False Prophet makes his appearance, no other false prophets will be around. In Christ Montana Marv But your assumption appears based on the idea that our Lord's Olivet Discourse began back in the days of His Apostles. If you read Christ's sign about wars and rumours of wars, you should discover the sign He gave us there is not... really about war, but peace. Many brethren leave off the very last phrase He gave with that, which is the key to the kind of sign He was giving with it... Mark 13 7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. That idea is that as long as we hear... of wars and rumours of wars, the end is not yet. So it means the end will present itself opposite to a time of hearing about wars and rumours of wars, which means what kind of time on earth? A time of peace. Thus that Sign has yet to happen, because since the beginning of this world all the way up to today, we are still hearing of wars and rumors of wars, meaning we have still yet to actually see a time of world peace upon the earth. He warned us with the false one in the Book of Daniel that will come destroying using peace, and craft will prosper in his hand, and Apostle Paul warned us about the time of the end when the deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety". That specifically is the plan of globalist organizations like the United Nations. Their plan is for a "one world government" established with world peace. Even with WWI it was called "the war to end all wars", though it did not happen. By this Sign our Lord Jesus is giving a huge clue of what to expect, and not be deceived by those who claim the end will be with WWIII. The very end of this world will be by the Antichrist and his servants using world peace, no more war. Since he is to sit in a temple in Jerusalem per Apostle Paul and proclaim himself as God and over all that is worshipped, with the majority of the world believing it, that time of their proclaiming "Peace and safety" is necessary in order to fool the deceived. That will be how Christ's faithful saints will be singled out in the end. Thus even if today, with those like ISIL et al, if another major war happens in the Middle East, it still will not be that Sign our Lord Jesus gave in that Mark 13:7 verse. We may expect the time of world peace to happen with the end of all wars, and that will signal the end our Lord Jesus pointed to there, which will be tribulation timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 20, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 20, 2014 Moreover... when our Lord Jesus said the following in His Olivet Discourse... Mark 13 29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but My words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. ... He was speaking that about the final generation on earth in the days of His second coming that would see these things. We well know our Lord Jesus' second coming is still expecting today. His second coming did not happen in the days of His Apostles and disciples that He was directly speaking to there upon the Mount of Olives. That's why He said when those signs are seen, then "know that it is nigh, even at the doors", meaning His second coming. That places all those Signs for the last generation of this world that will see His second coming. And that is the timing of the Seals of Rev.6 also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted September 21, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 21, 2014 Moreover... when our Lord Jesus said the following in His Olivet Discourse... Mark 13 29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but My words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. ... He was speaking that about the final generation on earth in the days of His second coming that would see these things. We well know our Lord Jesus' second coming is still expecting today. His second coming did not happen in the days of His Apostles and disciples that He was directly speaking to there upon the Mount of Olives. That's why He said when those signs are seen, then "know that it is nigh, even at the doors", meaning His second coming. That places all those Signs for the last generation of this world that will see His second coming. And that is the timing of the Seals of Rev.6 also. Salty Christ was referring to the generation before the Second Coming. And this being a generation of Israel. The first four are the beginning of birth pains. The 70th Week follows these first four signs. Therefore, they have nothing to do with the events during the 70th Week. They are a precursor. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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