Guest LadyC Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 one last thing. is it just a gun thing? or are you also opposed to someone using their physical body to protect an innocent? for example, if a pedophile was caught assaulting a child, would you have the same problem with the christian who slammed him up against a wall to get him off the child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 then i really don't understand where your problem with this issue lies. sure, peter was rebuked in the garden for using his sword... because he used it out of ANGER. He clearly expected his disciples to carry weapons. what did you think He intended for them to use them as, walking canes? He expected them to use them in defense from robbers or other dangers. NOT out of personal revenge. if i'm understanding you correctly, you seem to think that anyone who wields a sword (gun) in tis day and age is doing so purely out of personal vengeance. you're judging people's motives and intentions here, and are rejecting the possibility (probability actually) that God is using His people today to carry out His justice, not their own. you are acting as judge and jury, and finding them guilty. and yet you said that you recognize the distinction between defense and vengeance, and state that if God tells one to do it, He is the one to stand in judgment... of course, if He directs someone to defend the innocent or even property (which is also biblical), then there would be no judgment. so why are YOU offering judgment? apostles were called to be missionaries. they were permitted and even instructed by Jesus to carry weapons. however, they were also instructed to be willing to die for their faith. so to my understanding, they could use them for self defense whereas it was not their faith they were being persecuted for. No I think anyone who uses a gun in self defense, outside of the direct instruction of God, has made their own Judgment instead of letting God judge and is carrying out their own form of justice and not God's. God is the judge, if he chooses to render judgement and execute it through a person than that's God's right for he is the judge of us all. This I have no problem with. who are you to determine whether someone has been instructed by God to use a weapon in self defense or the defense of others? who are you to determine whether God has instructed a person individually to sell their cloak to purchase a sword? and who are you to determine whether God has instructed another person to protect against evil even if it means lethal force? why are you sitting in God's judgment seat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 by the way, i'd like to stick around and hear your responses, and i'm really not trying to be mean or disrespectful. it's just that your words seem to contradict themselves... you say God does, but then seem to say that God doesn't with anyone HERE (or there, who is licensed to carry.) but i can't. it's nearly 2 a.m. this insomnia beats the crap out of me every night, and i know it annoys my husband no end. so i must at least try to get some sleep. i'll have to try and catch up tomorrow if i'm not too far behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted September 4, 2014 one last thing. is it just a gun thing? or are you also opposed to someone using their physical body to protect an innocent? for example, if a pedophile was caught assaulting a child, would you have the same problem with the christian who slammed him up against a wall to get him off the child? I don't like guns at all, so I won't even pretend I do. as for the rest, well....I just don't know. The bible says whatever is not of Faith is sin, so I guess it would depend on the heart of the christian( which only God can Judge the Heart). Guns however have 1 purpose, they were created for one purpose....to maim, to kill and to destroy, and that is not how we are instructed to live. No LadyC I don't like Guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 swords were also created for one purpose. to maim, kill, and destroy. and yet Jesus told His disciples to arm themselves with swords. even you acknowledged that. the gun is the modern day equivalent of the sword. i don't like guns either... at least not in my own hands or the hands of a psycho. but i certainly appreciate those whom God has given the good sense, the skill, and a righteous heart that is willing to use one to save my life. and now i bid you adieu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted September 4, 2014 then i really don't understand where your problem with this issue lies. sure, peter was rebuked in the garden for using his sword... because he used it out of ANGER. He clearly expected his disciples to carry weapons. what did you think He intended for them to use them as, walking canes? He expected them to use them in defense from robbers or other dangers. NOT out of personal revenge. if i'm understanding you correctly, you seem to think that anyone who wields a sword (gun) in tis day and age is doing so purely out of personal vengeance. you're judging people's motives and intentions here, and are rejecting the possibility (probability actually) that God is using His people today to carry out His justice, not their own. you are acting as judge and jury, and finding them guilty. and yet you said that you recognize the distinction between defense and vengeance, and state that if God tells one to do it, He is the one to stand in judgment... of course, if He directs someone to defend the innocent or even property (which is also biblical), then there would be no judgment. so why are YOU offering judgment? apostles were called to be missionaries. they were permitted and even instructed by Jesus to carry weapons. however, they were also instructed to be willing to die for their faith. so to my understanding, they could use them for self defense whereas it was not their faith they were being persecuted for. No I think anyone who uses a gun in self defense, outside of the direct instruction of God, has made their own Judgment instead of letting God judge and is carrying out their own form of justice and not God's. God is the judge, if he chooses to render judgement and execute it through a person than that's God's right for he is the judge of us all. This I have no problem with. who are you to determine whether someone has been instructed by God to use a weapon in self defense or the defense of others? who are you to determine whether God has instructed a person individually to sell their cloak to purchase a sword? and who are you to determine whether God has instructed another person to protect against evil even if it means lethal force? why are you sitting in God's judgment seat? I am instructed to know people by their fruits. I have not seen anyone who has murdered or killed someone who had the fruits outlined in scripture. Are you saying all that have guns only use them at God's direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He giveth more grace Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2014 I am going to have to unfollow this thread, because my Inbox had 25 notifications this morning, but before I go let me say this, I said it before, but Praise The Lord and pass the ammunition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I am going to have to unfollow this thread, because my Inbox had 25 notifications this morning, but before I go let me say this, I said it before, but Praise The Lord and pass the ammunition? :24: Amen~! But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. 1 Timothy 5:8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,115 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,847 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2014 But repaying violence with violence is revenge isn't it? And I made it clear that revenge belongs to the Lord only. There is no repayment involved. You've 'straw-manned' me a bit there. Defending yourself is not repaying violence with violence. Defending yourself is using physical means to protect yourself against violence. 'Repayment' suggests that you have acted AFTER the fact - which I did not condone. Nor is revenge legal, at least in the State of Oklahoma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 then i really don't understand where your problem with this issue lies. sure, peter was rebuked in the garden for using his sword... because he used it out of ANGER. He clearly expected his disciples to carry weapons. what did you think He intended for them to use them as, walking canes? He expected them to use them in defense from robbers or other dangers. NOT out of personal revenge. if i'm understanding you correctly, you seem to think that anyone who wields a sword (gun) in tis day and age is doing so purely out of personal vengeance. you're judging people's motives and intentions here, and are rejecting the possibility (probability actually) that God is using His people today to carry out His justice, not their own. you are acting as judge and jury, and finding them guilty. and yet you said that you recognize the distinction between defense and vengeance, and state that if God tells one to do it, He is the one to stand in judgment... of course, if He directs someone to defend the innocent or even property (which is also biblical), then there would be no judgment. so why are YOU offering judgment? apostles were called to be missionaries. they were permitted and even instructed by Jesus to carry weapons. however, they were also instructed to be willing to die for their faith. so to my understanding, they could use them for self defense whereas it was not their faith they were being persecuted for. No I think anyone who uses a gun in self defense, outside of the direct instruction of God, has made their own Judgment instead of letting God judge and is carrying out their own form of justice and not God's. God is the judge, if he chooses to render judgement and execute it through a person than that's God's right for he is the judge of us all. This I have no problem with. who are you to determine whether someone has been instructed by God to use a weapon in self defense or the defense of others? who are you to determine whether God has instructed a person individually to sell their cloak to purchase a sword? and who are you to determine whether God has instructed another person to protect against evil even if it means lethal force? why are you sitting in God's judgment seat? I am instructed to know people by their fruits. I have not seen anyone who has murdered or killed someone who had the fruits outlined in scripture. Are you saying all that have guns only use them at God's direction? i'm saying that when a christian owns a gun, he's not likely going to use it to execute personal revenge as you are supposing. and yes, we are ALL supposed to know people by their fruits. so because king david was a man of war, according to your judgement of what good fruit is, that must mean he was not a godly man. we could take this further and say that from my perspective, a person who would not defend his home and his family, or an innocent on the street against evil would be not showing godly fruit. but i would never make that kind of judgment against you. why do you make it against others? i really do not think you grasp the difference between violence (aggression, offense) and defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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