Does Christ's blood cover past generations before him?

[Sister]

John 15:1   I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

John 15:2   Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:3   Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken to you.

John 15:4   Abide in me, and I in you.  As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; nor more can ye, except ye abide in me.

John 15:5   I am the vine, ye are the branches, He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit; for without me ye can do nothing.

 

 

Revelation 19:13   And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

 

No man can come to God, unless we go through his word.

We cannot know God by going through Mohamad's word, or Buddha's word, or anyone else's word, but God's own Word which is Christ

Jesus said we are clean through the word which he had spoken to us, and without him we can do nothing.

 

John 5:24   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

 

So how can some claim that the dead (especially the prophets and followers of God) who died before Christ was even born, ...are automatically saved.... because Christ took on the sins of the world?

Did they hear his word?

Did they get the chance to repent, or ever learn about faith and mercy,

wasn't it just black and white for them?

They were sometimes stoned if they broke the law.

They would roll over in their graves if they only could see all the sins we can be forgiven for now!

They had it so hard, and we have it so easy.

 

If everything was created through Christ, and for Christ, then how come they don't need him as some claim?

Did they know what all those lambs they sacrificed represented?

Don't forget they were a nation built on the same law.  They all had each other.

We christians on the other hand stand out.  We are individuals living in a world that does not accept God. True christians are hated by the world.  We are strange to them.

Do they have a testimony on what it's like to suffer for Christ's sake?

 

Can anyone answer?

I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Persuaded]

Those in the OT were faithful in anticipation of Christ:

 

[Gal 3:7-9 KJV] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before (earlier) the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

[Heb 11:1,2 KJV] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report.

 

[Creation, Abel, and Enoch]

 

[Heb 11:6 KJV] But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[Noah, Abraham, Sara]

 

[Heb 11:13-16 KJV] These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that [country] from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better [country], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

[offering of Isaac, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph]

 

[Heb 11:24-26 KJV] By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

 

[Fled Egypt, Jericho, and lots more examples]

 

 

[Heb 11:39,40 KJV] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

Our faith is based on the fact of Christ. Interestingly, our faith confirms or fulfills or validates their faith (Heb 11:40b). Conversely, our lack of faith is an insult to their faithfulness.

 

[Rom 10:17 KJV] So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

These from Heb 11 had faith, therefore according to Paul in Romans they had to have heard God's revealed Word. We have a record of God speaking to some (Enoch walked with God; Abraham was called out of Ur and later he and his sons were given the promises; Moses in the burning bush; Joshua spoke to the Captain of the of the Lord's host), and can only presume that the others had the Word similarly conveyed to them.

[OneLight]

Sister, what do you believe Jesus did in the heart of the earth for three days and three night? Did Jesus not open the graves of the saints who died before His time?

Matthew 27:51-53

 

Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Does Jesus not have the keys to Hades and Death?

Revelation 1:18

I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

God does not leave anyone behind who put their heart felt faith in Him.

[Last Daze]

I think our limited understanding of "time" in the context of eternity works against us.  A lot of things were finished before the foundation of the world.

[Sister]

 

 

Those in the OT were faithful in anticipation of Christ:

 

[Gal 3:7-9 KJV] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before (earlier) the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

 

 

Thankyou Persuaded, that is an excellent scripture.

They which are of the faith, are counted as Abraham's seed (children) is referrig to us christians today.  We gentiles whom believe are adopted into the family (spiritual Israelites)

But notice it says Abraham was preached the gospel?

The gospel declares Jesus Christ. 

Abraham got "inside information" alone, before the rest of the world thousands of years earlier.

Abraham made tithes to Melkesedek and met the Word of God in person.

This shows us how blessed Abraham was.

 

 

Galatians 2:16   Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

 

[Heb 11:1,2 KJV] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report.

 

Yes.  We all did not personally meet Jesus or the apostles, yet we believe their report.

We know he is the Son of God and has the power to forgive sins.

We know what to expect, we were clearly informed that between us and God there is a mediator, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Our faith is not blind but has real knowledge to back it up, because of the gospels first, and the rest of his word.

Those under the old covenant did not know why they were doing sacrifices and rituals,

they did it because they had to, no choice.  It was the law.  Do or die.

There were a few exceptions, with Abraham who was before the law, therefore not under it,

and the prophets, and King David, etc, who had faith, and some insight but not not the full picture.

 

 Luke 10:24   For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

 

 

But they do not make up the majority of Israel.  The ones with faith, would be such a small number.

The majority of them, would of kept the commandments and ordinaces out of fear of being stoned or shamed.

They did not learn real love for the Lord, or what is was like to be persecuted for Christ's sake,

they did not have the holy spirit, therefore did not learn the depths of God, the love of Christ, nor the cunning tricks of the enemy.

I say these ones are not discarded, but will have borrowed time given to them again,

to fill them up with all spiritual knowledge of the why's and how's, to worship because of love, a choice that comes deep from the heart.

And the holy spirit is required in order to be resurrected into spirit or quickened.

 

 

So if the Law was the old school master representing what was to come, (Christ)

then the dead back then did not live to witness the next stage of learning.

Can you see my point?

They will be given a chance, but in order for that to happen, and the process of learning Christ,

they must come back from the dead to live their lives again for a short period and mulitply again during the process.

 

Isaiah 65:20   There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

 

Hebrews 8:8   For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

 

Sound strange?

 

 

[Sister]

Sister, what do you believe Jesus did in the heart of the earth for three days and three night? Did Jesus not open the graves of the saints who died before His time?

One Light

 

I am so glad you brought this up.

This "heart of the earth" is from the time Jesus was "captured" to his death"

He "suffered" at the hands of men for 3 days and 3 nights.

He was in "the belly of death"

 

He was not dead for 3 days and 3 nights,

but rose on the third day.

His body did not see corruption.

He rose before his body started decomposing.

[Defending the Name]

Thank you Sister for the question worthy of an answer. You asked the following:

So how can some claim that the dead (especially the prophets and followers of God) who died before Christ was even born, ...are automatically saved.... because Christ took on the sins of the world?

These are declared the servants of our God who had died for the Word of God, the Angel of Yahweh's presence.

They were raised according to Matthew 27:52-53, in fulfilment to the word of The Lord in Ezekiel 37:11-15, Daniel 12:-1-3 and Isaiah 61.

In particular:

Isaiah 61:3

To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

Isaiah 61:10-11

I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

Did they hear his word?

Yes, The Lord when in the belly of the earth ministered onto them for three days and then raised them from their graves in fulfilment of Old Testament prophesies, for they too were purchased by the blood of Christ.

1 Peter 3:18-19

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Did they get the chance to repent, or ever learn about faith and mercy, wasn't it just black and white for them?

They came by repentance and a lot of the Old Testament prophet writings are poetic reflections of the mercifulness of God and man's vanity. Read Ecclesiastics chapter one to learn that men in those days, specifically this preacher was reflecting upon his own vanity and could not reconcile it by the knowledge and wisdom that he had.

This proclamation is very similar to want Saint Paul once said:

Philippians 3:4-9

Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

They were sometimes stoned if they broke the law. They would roll over in their graves if they only could see all the sins we can be forgiven for now! They had it so hard, and we have it so easy.

Sister two words, different situational and cultural context. In fact the life they had is simple, where as the life we have is much more difficult and there are millions of distractions that can take us in a completely different direction to the will of God. Those people were happy if they lived in peace and had food on their tables and they laboured to make ends meat and there was no time for them to chit chat about others, behind other peoples backs in a negative way. Sister the more you go back in history the more simple and child like the people of that day were.

If everything was created through Christ, and for Christ, then how come they don't need him as some claim?

They needed him more than anyone living today and they placed everything on the messiah coming to raise them up from their graves and wiping their tears.

Isaiah 61:2

To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Did they know what all those lambs they sacrificed represented?

Probably not, but they did it traditionally to feed the poor and in that regard they served one another in times of hardship, remembering that what they offered was essentially their livelihood, because they had so little compared to what we have today. Jesus said:

John 15:13

Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.

We have everything today and you would seldom find a person to give away their livelihood to their neighbour and not expect anything in return.

Don't forget they were a nation built on the same law. They all had each other.

Certainly and it is true.

We christians on the other hand stand out. We are individuals living in a world that does not accept God. True christians are hated by the world. We are strange to them.

We stand out in the world, but remembering that we live in a world that is surrounded by churches and people who call themselves Christians. Whereas the nation of Israel itself stood amongst all the pagan religions and kingdoms that hated her.

Do they have a testimony on what it's like to suffer for Christ's sake?

In Revelation of John they are declared as suffering for the Word of God just like we Christians are declared to suffer for the lamb of God.

Can anyone answer?

I did my best, but it is only counted as minuscule before God.

I'd like to hear your thoughts.

The Old Covenant Jews have been raised and are reigning with Christ in heavenly New Jerusalem as his angelic white cloud that he sits on. The unbelieving Jews who fall under the new covenant age have become the unbelieving Gentiles and Christians have become the spiritual Jews and heirs to the heavenly kingdom.

As it is written the first to have received the gospel shall be the last to accept it. The unbelieving Jews of today will eventually be commissioned to be the 11th workmen and come through the blood covenant so that they too, may be saved.

After the new covenant age the blood is the only way to the throne room of God where all the resurrected are with him as the white angelic cloud. Jesus said the men of Nineveh will come to rebuke this generation, so it remains that this prophesy will be fulfilled in the coming future and the house of Jacob will be commissioned as the 11th hour workmen by the Elijah. Jonah is coming to the house of Jacob to save them from destruction.

Isaiah 11:15-16

15The LORD will make a dry path through the gulf of the Red Sea. He will wave his hand over the Euphrates River, sending a mighty wind to divide it into seven streams so it can easily be crossed on foot. 16He will make a highway for the remnant of his people, the remnant coming from Assyria, just as he did for Israel long ago when they returned from Egypt.

God will send his wind in seven streams that symbolises the seven eyes and Spirits of The Lord, who is the Holy Ghost, to bring back whom?

To being back the remaining of his unbelieving Jewish people who live in the new covenant age. How will he bring back today's remaining unbelieving Jews who have yet to accept Christ?

By the remaining people who are from Assyria, who are the men of Nineveh. How and who did God use to return Israel from Egypt the first time?

It was Moses, a Christ like figure who executed the word of God and who received the Law, by which they were instrumental to bring Israel back to faith. In the last days the Elijah is commissioned by Christ who likewise will execute the word of God and will successfully present the gospel to the remnant of Israel who live today in the new covenant age. The means he will do this is by uniting the men of Nineveh with the Jews of today for that is the way that The Lord said will be prosperous.

Egypt today symbolises the gentile world consisting of all nations that are not Israel and not Assyria. The Isaiah versus below declare that the remnant of the Assyrians (little church of Babylon) will have access to the world (Egypt) by means of commissioning Israel, whom will make the trio as the 11th hour workmen and all three will be the church as it was the 1st century church, in the last effort and rally to preach the gospel before the end. In this case God uses Assyria who are the men of Nineveh to return back people of Israel from the brink of eternal destruction.

Isaiah 19:23-25

23In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria. The Assyrians will go to Egypt and the Egyptians to Assyria. The Egyptians and Assyrians will worship together. 24In that day Israel will be the third, along with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing on the earth. 25The Lord Almighty will bless them, saying, “Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance.”

These words I speak are what The Lord has revealed to me for they are of the Spirit and witnessed by the Spirit.

Let the end day spiritual army of God unite in Christ and proclaim the everlasting gospel for the last and final time, before the prince of this world, the devil enters in as the Man of Sin.

[Salty]

John 15:1   I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

John 15:2   Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:3   Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken to you.

John 15:4   Abide in me, and I in you.  As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; nor more can ye, except ye abide in me.

John 15:5   I am the vine, ye are the branches, He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit; for without me ye can do nothing.

 

 

Revelation 19:13   And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

 

No man can come to God, unless we go through his word.

We cannot know God by going through Mohamad's word, or Buddha's word, or anyone else's word, but God's own Word which is Christ

Jesus said we are clean through the word which he had spoken to us, and without him we can do nothing.

 

John 5:24   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

 

So how can some claim that the dead (especially the prophets and followers of God) who died before Christ was even born, ...are automatically saved.... because Christ took on the sins of the world?

Did they hear his word?

Did they get the chance to repent, or ever learn about faith and mercy,

wasn't it just black and white for them?

They were sometimes stoned if they broke the law.

They would roll over in their graves if they only could see all the sins we can be forgiven for now!

They had it so hard, and we have it so easy.

 

If everything was created through Christ, and for Christ, then how come they don't need him as some claim?

Did they know what all those lambs they sacrificed represented?

Don't forget they were a nation built on the same law.  They all had each other.

We christians on the other hand stand out.  We are individuals living in a world that does not accept God. True christians are hated by the world.  We are strange to them.

Do they have a testimony on what it's like to suffer for Christ's sake?

 

Can anyone answer?

I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

A close study of NT Scripture like Hebrews 11 about Faith reveals that they were not totally ignorant of God's Salvation through His promised Messiah of the OT Books. Even early in Deuteronomy through Moses God mentioned Christ briefly (as The Prophet which Moses said would come, and they would hear Him).

 

Christ met Abraham at his tent door in Gen.18, and they stood together speaking of Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

Maybe you're confusing the idea of God's Salvation going also to the Gentiles, which the OT prophets didn't fully understand and sought?

[OneLight]

Sister, what do you believe Jesus did in the heart of the earth for three days and three night? Did Jesus not open the graves of the saints who died before His time?

One Light

 

I am so glad you brought this up.

This "heart of the earth" is from the time Jesus was "captured" to his death"

He "suffered" at the hands of men for 3 days and 3 nights.

He was in "the belly of death"

 

He was not dead for 3 days and 3 nights,

but rose on the third day.

His body did not see corruption.

He rose before his body started decomposing.

So, are you saying that Jesus did not, after dying on the cross, enter into the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights, but did raise on the third day? Since Jesus Himself said He would be in the heart of the earth for this time, where in scripture do you find He was not? Where do you read it was less than three days and three nights?

Would you also address the question about those who rose from the grave at the time of His resurrection?

[Sister]

 

 

 

So, are you saying that Jesus did not, after dying on the cross, enter into the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights, but did raise on the third day? Since Jesus Himself said He would be in the heart of the earth for this time, where in scripture do you find He was not? Where do you read it was less than three days and three nights?

Would you also address the question about those who rose from the grave at the time of His resurrection?

 

One light

 

Sorry, I made a mistake in my statement. I said;

This "heart of the earth" is from the time Jesus was "captured" to his death"

 

I mean't the "heart of the earth"is from the time Jesus was "captured to his resurrection.

 

The Jewish days start at 6pm

 

(Day 1) Thurs

Jesus was praying at night

Early on thurs morning he was captured, then on that same day, thursday light, he was interrogated.

 

(Day 2) Friday Night

 He was tortured, and Friday light he was crucified and died at 3pm

 He was burried that same evening before 6pm

(1 night)

 

(Day 3) Sat Night

He was in his grave.

Sat light he still in his grave

(2nd night)

 

Sunday Night he was in his grave, in the morning he was risen (sunday)

(3rd night)

 

 

 

His suffering started on thurs, so he was in "the heart of the earth" for 3 days and 3 nights. From capture to resurrection. 

His torture started thurs light. Thats when he was in the belly of the whale.

 

but in the grave for two nights, and one day

(Rose on the 3rd day - friday (day 1), sat (day 2) Sund (day 3)

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

I am happy to address your second question next.