Definition of Faith

[In His Ministry]

Only With the help the Holy Spirit we have faith..

[Guest Teditis]

 

 

We can't prove Adam existed. Does that prove Jesus didn't die for his sin?

I think you should explain yourself a little better in your posts. They always leave me the impression that you are just fishing for answers with no real intention of discussing substance. Out of curiosity I went to a previous thread you started and didn't have to look far to see this pattern repeated over and over again.

 

Are those who view evolution as the best explanation of speciation destined for hell?

In your reading of the scripture, can I go there if I believe science has the best answers for what we see here in nature?

Does believing the evidence of evolution is the best explanation of speciation worthy of getting "cut down and burned"?

Can you explain why blood sacrifice is important to God? Why would He like to see things die by bleeding out?

first things first, did he like seing animals die, blleed and burn for him?

Would it have been worse if he would never see his Son again?

What do you consider simple? Are we to remain simple? Is not being "Simple" a bad thing?

How can competition to survive make a life form simpler - that's not logical?

...why would it be beyond the realm of possibilty to have something become more complex via gene change?

Well, I think you get the point. If you're really interested in a discussion, then maybe you should park and unpack your thoughts a bit rather than just shooting these drive-by questions. II Tim. 2:23, Titus 3:9

Hold the Fort,

Ehud

(P.S. Most of those questions you posed were thoughtfully answered by others on this forum, but their answers appeared to be largely overlooked)

 

Is there a problem with asking a question and leaving the floor open?  Seems too often that people want to ask questions but not listen. 

 

 

Isn't that what you are doing.... Asking questions and then not listening to the responses?

Edited September 23, 2014 by Teditis

[Willa]

Years ago someone posted this on a different site after someone demanded proof of God's existence. I liked it so much that I copied it so I could share it with others. - not only is there no proof, faith demands no proof. It is not science. Faith by nature and definition is destroyed by proof, for then it is something different: fact. So, in effect,you want a Christian to give you something he or she cannot if they are true to God or if they do, simply prove that they are not true to their God.-

Do you doubt the existance of the wind?

I check Greek definitions and do word studies to understand better.. Vine:

Faith: PISTIS: FRIM PERSUASION, A CONVICTION BASED ON HEARING. TRUST, TRUSTWORTHINESS, FIDELITY.

The verb, PISTEUO: a] A FIRM CONVICTION PRODUCING A FULL ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF GOD'S REVELATION OR TRUTH. b] A PERSONAL SURRENDER TO HIM. c] A CONDUCT INSPIRED BY SUCH SURRENDER.. TO BE PERSUADED OF, hence TO TRUST; RELIANCE UPON, not mere credence.

Zodhiates: 4102 Pistis: FIRM PERSUASION, CONVICTION, BELIEF IN THE TRUTH, VERACITY, objectively: THAT WHICH IS BELIEVED. Common usage: the ability to believe., c] the persuasion is not the outcome of imagination but is based on fact. d;] faith is which stands on proof arrived at inductively.

II. GOOD FAITH, FAITHFULNESS SINCERITY

III FAITH GIVEN AS A PLEDGE, PROMISE

IV A TECHNICAL TERM=APPROPRIATING WHAT GOD IN CHRIST HAS FOR MAN, RESULTING IN THE TRANSFORMATION OF MAN'S CHARACTER AND WAY OF LIFE. a] the faith emanating from God. b] faith in Christ (such as to work miracles),,

Verb, PISTEUO: TO BELIEVE, HAVE FAITH IN, TRUST, EMBRACE, REST UPON, ENTRUST. C] BELIEF CREATES COMPLETE DEPENDENCE UPON THE LORD AND NOT INDEPENDENCE. vi] once one believes he continues to believe because he has eternal life in him.

Based on these definitions, I have to disagree with the quotation..Faith is not destroyed by proof. However the proof may be subjective. We see the results of faith, and we see the results of God in creation as well as His Presence in the changed lives of people.. John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

You can feel the wind but you can't see it. You can see the results of the wind blowing. You can see the changes it has caused on the earth.. You can hear the wind. It is better explained subjectively. However,, wind velocity can be measured. The effect of God in an individual can only be observed as to the change over time..

Both faith and believe have the active quality inherant in them as well as a concrete quality. There is no pie in the sky wishing going on. I think of an old hymn: I KNOW (intmately) Whom I have believed, and am persuaded the He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that day.

[jerryR34]

We can't prove Adam existed. Does that prove Jesus didn't die for his sin?

I think you should explain yourself a little better in your posts. They always leave me the impression that you are just fishing for answers with no real intention of discussing substance. Out of curiosity I went to a previous thread you started and didn't have to look far to see this pattern repeated over and over again.

Are those who view evolution as the best explanation of speciation destined for hell?

In your reading of the scripture, can I go there if I believe science has the best answers for what we see here in nature?

Does believing the evidence of evolution is the best explanation of speciation worthy of getting "cut down and burned"?

Can you explain why blood sacrifice is important to God? Why would He like to see things die by bleeding out?

first things first, did he like seing animals die, blleed and burn for him?

Would it have been worse if he would never see his Son again?

What do you consider simple? Are we to remain simple? Is not being "Simple" a bad thing?

How can competition to survive make a life form simpler - that's not logical?

...why would it be beyond the realm of possibilty to have something become more complex via gene change?

Well, I think you get the point. If you're really interested in a discussion, then maybe you should park and unpack your thoughts a bit rather than just shooting these drive-by questions. II Tim. 2:23, Titus 3:9

Hold the Fort,

Ehud

(P.S. Most of those questions you posed were thoughtfully answered by others on this forum, but their answers appeared to be largely overlooked)

Is there a problem with asking a question and leaving the floor open? Seems too often that people want to ask questions but not listen.

Isn't that what you are doing.... Asking questions and then not listening to the responses?

[jerryR34]

Just because I don't answer doesn't mean I don't listen.

[Bonky]

Based on these definitions, I have to disagree with the quotation..Faith is not destroyed by proof. However the proof may be subjective. We see the results of faith, and we see the results of God in creation as well as His Presence in the changed lives of people.. John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

You can feel the wind but you can't see it. You can see the results of the wind blowing. You can see the changes it has caused on the earth.. You can hear the wind. It is better explained subjectively. However,, wind velocity can be measured. The effect of God in an individual can only be observed as to the change over time..

Both faith and believe have the active quality inherant in them as well as a concrete quality. There is no pie in the sky wishing going on. I think of an old hymn: I KNOW (intmately) Whom I have believed, and am persuaded the He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that day.

Just wanted to offer a response, a couple things came to mind when I read your post.

On one hand you seem to imply that proof may be subjective if we're talking about proof that goes against your faith. What about the "proof" that people claim is in support of their faith, seems to me that would be subjective as well. So when you say "there is no pie in the sky wishing going on", I don't know how we would quantify that. As I see it, that may be exactly what's going on.

I also think the idea that you can tell someone is a faithful servant of God [my words based on what you were saying] by how their outward life appears over time. There have been sick and twisted serial killers who were nice on the outside [even described as charming and warm]. So once again I really question anyone's ability to measure or proclaim supernatural causation for naturally observed events or behaviors.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Bonky

[Guest]

I really question anyone's ability to measure or proclaim supernatural causation for naturally observed events or behaviors.

 

 

No Doubt~!

 

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

 

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

 

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

 

After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

 

And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 1 Corinthians 15:1-8

[Willa]

Based on these definitions, I have to disagree with the quotation..Faith is not destroyed by proof. However the proof may be subjective. We see the results of faith, and we see the results of God in creation as well as His Presence in the changed lives of people.. John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.You can feel the wind but you can't see it. You can see the results of the wind blowing. You can see the changes it has caused on the earth.. You can hear the wind. It is better explained subjectively. However,, wind velocity can be measured. The effect of God in an individual can only be observed as to the change over time..Both faith and believe have the active quality inherant in them as well as a concrete quality. There is no pie in the sky wishing going on. I think of an old hymn: I KNOW (intmately) Whom I have believed, and am persuaded the He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that day.

Just wanted to offer a response, a couple things came to mind when I read your post.On one hand you seem to imply that proof may be subjective if we're talking about proof that goes against your faith. What about the "proof" that people claim is in support of their faith, seems to me that would be subjective as well. So when you say "there is no pie in the sky wishing going on", I don't know how we would quantify that. As I see it, that may be exactly what's going on.I also think the idea that you can tell someone is a faithful servant of God [my words based on what you were saying] by how their outward life appears over time. There have been sick and twisted serial killers who were nice on the outside [even described as charming and warm]. So once again I really question anyone's ability to measure or proclaim supernatural causation for naturally observed events or behaviors.

The seriel killers demonstrated by those acts that the Living God was not operative in their lives. I am not talking about appearances of being nice or pleasant.. Jesus said you will know them by their fruit--what their lives produce. Killing is bad fruit. This kind of proof is objective. Some kinds are subjective such as inward peace. This caused a man to stop beating his wife and changed him into a gentle man. That is objective. Feeling love and kindness for another is subjective. The demonstration of love and kindness is objective. That is why it is not pie in the sky. Some changes in behavior don't happen overnight but some do. Many people become christians because of the changes in behavior they have seen in a close friend. I have 2 close childhood friends who claim that this is the case because of me, although I was unaware of it until recent years. I have 2 sons who are christians today because of the changes they saw in their father. A spiritualist who hated Christians suddenly wants to live with them, attend church every sunday, while sitting in a pew asks one of them how to receive Christ, does so and suddenly loves Christians and stops committing adultry. She prays alloud at the dinner table and has a total transformation of subjective attitudes and objective habits.

But people who don't want to believe in Christ will not accept these as demonstration of their faith, nor will the believe a physical miracle when one occurs before their eyes. They make excuses not to believe because they don't want to be held accountable for their sins. That, my friend, is pie in the sky wishful thinking---to deny the Living God.

[BrotherJames]

Hello There you "ALL"...Peace of Christ.

 

      The Spiritual Faith of the Spiritual Israel = Cristianity is: The Holy Spirit = 2 Cor. 4:13, just like The "Grace of God a.k.a The Saving Grace is the "SAME" Holy Spirit..= Zech. 12:10..

 

     I see satan have been lying to some people here too.....

 

    God Bless........Brother James

   

[OneLight]

Hello There you "ALL"...Peace of Christ.

 

      The Spiritual Faith of the Spiritual Israel = Cristianity is: The Holy Spirit = 2 Cor. 4:13, just like The "Grace of God a.k.a The Saving Grace is the "SAME" Holy Spirit..= Zech. 12:10..

 

     I see satan have been lying to some people here too.....

 

    God Bless........Brother James

 

Is this a drive by or do you plan on explaining what you mean?