Secret Teachings?

[Marilyn C]

Hi pawz,

 

You are asking about `keys to interpretation,` obviously prophecy & that would also include all God`s word. John gave good advise & I would just add my few which have guided me over many years.

 

1. Christ Centred.

 

Christ is the Centre & purpose of His written word. All lanes, whether historical, prophetic or symbolic & types lead us to Christ, His wonderful character & His awesome purposes for mankind. If this key is not applied then people put themselves as the centre, picking & choosing what they want.

 

`And beginning at Moses & all the prophets, He (Christ) expounded to them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.` (Luke 24: 27)

 

 

2. Literal / Symbolic.

 

God has written His word for us to understand it literally, except when indicated as different (eg. a parable, a symbol) The interpretation of these is not left for us to make up or pick & choose, for God Himself explains their meaning either in the context or through out His word. If we don`t apply this key we will end up with everyone`s opinion & strange mystical meanings.

 

My Rock - The Lord (Ps. 18: 2)

As a trumpet - God`s voice. (Rev. 1: 10 & 11)

 

 

3. People Groups.

 

God distinguishes 3 groups of people in His word that he has purposes for.

 

`Give no offence either to the Jews or to the Greeks (nations) or to the Church (Body of Christ) of God.`  (1 Cor. 10: 32)

 

 

If this key is not used when interpreting scripture then all scripture will be twisted & distorted to make the Body of Christ try to fit in with Israel & the nations.

 

 

May these 3 keys help you to discern correctly God`s word, pawz. Blessings, Marilyn.

[pawz]

John, Marilyn,to answer you without seeking to defend myself from the suggestion that I do not already know, and practice these things without it sounding like pride or self-justification is difficult. Enough to say that  I am with you in these matters - you cannot know that because you do not know  me, so it is good advice for which I should thank you and be appreciative of.

When Christ met the men on the road to Emmaus, he interpreted the scriptures to them in a way they had not previously understood. These men, who knew the Hebrew scripture so well, did not actually see what was truly written there.

I made it my business, many years ago, to go through each word of the Hebrew in Genesis 1-3,  finding it's given meanings, analyzing it's structure, what the prefix and suffix indicated, how many times it occurred,  what the  repeated patterns of the verses indicated. I did not do a perfect job because I had no-one to teach me the grammar  or about the points and the moods and tenses etc - but I learned so much that  is missed in our English translations.
Likewise the Greek, which I have also studied and still continue with - not to greatly advanced levels, but  enough. That too gives different shades of  interpretation to certain words and is helpful in gaining a more accurate understanding. That is where my interest lies - but not only that; there are questions about Creation, the Fall, Death, which are challenging. I feel  we are missing something - and there is the wonder of numbers,and the creative power of God's spoken words and the Zodiac,and the Urim and Thummim, the meanings of the colours of the stones and the  New Jerusalem, the correlations between the living creatures in Revelation and the Ezekiel passages, also the standards of Israel -so many symbols and patterns that can be  found throughout  the Hebrew scriptures.... I surely am not alone in wanting to know more about  these things. I do believe that everything the Lord  does is done with order and  structure, and that is as true of His written Word as in Creation itself. My interest is in knowing  more than my worthy KJV is going to be able to tell me on the surface - I have to dig  the treasures of wisdom and understanding out for myself, as well as receive it from above, but if anyone  has been there  already and is willing to share, I am all ears....I hope I have explained a bit better now.

[OneLight]

The key is to know when God is speaking the truth to you through the Holy Spirit.  We need to know if it is our own spirit who is trying to lead us, another spirit trying to mislead us or if the Spirit is trying to show us the truth.  This can only be done through a close relationship with God, one where we know when He is speaking and when He is not.  Without this relationship, and knowing His voice, people are led astray by their own desires or another spirit.  That is why there are so many false teachings.

[Qnts2]

Pawz, first of all, I want to congratulate you and your studies. I have heard many people try to interpret the Hebrew to match their theology, but they mess up terribly by ignoring the grammar (prefixes, suffixes, noun vs. verb vs. adjective, etc). Entire theologies have been developed based on a poor understanding of Hebrew grammar, and then passed around to others who do not study the grammar, but just accept the poor scholarship as true.

 

When I first read the NT, I expected it to be anti-semitic, and a very poor translation. I had picked up what I considered to be a 'Gentile' bible, and the first thing I did was take the English translation of the OT, back to the original Hebrew to see if it was accurate. I found for the most part it to be a very accurate translation, but there were places which differed from the interpretation of the Jewish Rabbis. I looked at the grammar, and the added vowels, as well as the possible known scribal errors. To my surprise, I found that the differences were explanable and reasonable.  

 

So, I say that most English translations done by the major versions, are accurate, and convey the meaning of the original Hebrew. I have since met a Christian who teaches OT, and has an excellent knowledge of biblical Hebrew. I had thought that only Jewish Rabbis had that level of knowledge, as Hebrew has been the language of scripture studied by the Jewish people for thousands of years. My mind was changed with this Christian professor (Walter Kaiser).  

 

So, I do trust the standardly accepted translations, and if there is a question, I do go to the Hebrew.

 

One rule of understanding of the Hebrew is that the first and most important level of understanding of scripture is what is called the 'plain meaning'. It says what it says. Any additional alleghorical, or spiritual/mystical understanding can not contradict or alter the plain/simple meaning. God wrote the book for people and in a way people can understand, so the plainest meaning is usually the correct way to interpret. Of course, scripture has a spiritual component, but Christians have the Holy Spirit to explain the spiritual meaning.  

 

Having grown up hearing some of the more mystical 'deeper' interpretations, and some of the extremes taken by those who use the text to find the more mystical leasons, I have learned to be cautious with these approaches.

[Fez]

The mysticism in Judaism and Christianity are misapplications of the hidden prophecies of the future. The messages were discovered but the proper keys for interpreting them were not applied so we end up with all kinds of wacko ideas.

 

Qnts2 said..

 

One rule of understanding of the Hebrew is that the first and most important level of understanding of scripture is what is called the 'plain meaning'. It says what it says. Any additional alleghorical, or spiritual/mystical understanding can not contradict or alter the plain/simple meaning. God wrote the book for people and in a way people can understand, so the plainest meaning is usually the correct way to interpret. Of course, scripture has a spiritual component, but Christians have the Holy Spirit to explain the spiritual meaning.  

 

Having grown up hearing some of the more mystical 'deeper' interpretations, and some of the extremes taken by those who use the text to find the more mystical leasons, I have learned to be cautious with these approaches.

 

Well said sister!

 

Pawz, this is a very good advice and I encourage you to take heed of it in your study.

[JohnD]

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (NIV)
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

 

The only scriptures in existence at the time were the Tanakh / Old Testament scriptures. So the plain meaning interpretation of scripture will take the reader only so far. And the cursing of the fig tree was testimonial to the Lord looking for someone who (like a preseason fig) saw in the Tanakh the plan of God and found none. If plain meaning were all they went by (to say nothing of the weed seed sown in with the wheat corrupting the Jewish leadership), how could God expect them to know the time of their visitation?

 

And again, Deut 29:29, Prov 25:2, Isaiah 28:9-13 are smack dab in the middle of the Old Testament writings...

 

I would say the well placed cynicism on the traditions of men / interpretations of men / wild teachings on so-called mysticism being only the teachings of men is well deserved. Do not trust or believe men! Trust and believe the Holy Spirit.

 

Be sure its him...

 

1 Thessalonians 5:21 (NIV)
21 Test everything. Hold on to the good.

 

1 John 4:1 (NIV)
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

Acts 17:11 (NIV)
11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NIV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

2 Peter 1:20-21 (NIV)
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

 

John 16:13 (NIV)
13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

 

Isaiah 28:9-13 (NIV)
9 “Who is it he is trying to teach? To whom is he explaining his message? To children weaned from their milk, to those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there.”
11 Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people,
12 to whom he said, “This is the resting place, let the weary rest”; and, “This is the place of repose”— but they would not listen.
13 So then, the word of the LORD to them will become: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there— so that they will go and fall backward, be injured and snared and captured.

 

Deuteronomy 29:29 (NIV)
29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.

 

Proverbs 25:2 (NIV)
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.

 

Proverbs 1 (NIV)
1 The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel:
2 for attaining wisdom and discipline; for understanding words of insight;
3 for acquiring a disciplined and prudent life, doing what is right and just and fair;
4 for giving prudence to the simple, knowledge and discretion to the young—
5 let the wise listen and add to their learning, and let the discerning get guidance—
6 for understanding proverbs and parables, the sayings and riddles of the wise.
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.
8 Listen, my son, to your father’s instruction and do not forsake your mother’s teaching.
9 They will be a garland to grace your head and a chain to adorn your neck.
10 My son, if sinners entice you, do not give in to them.
11 If they say, “Come along with us; let’s lie in wait for someone’s blood, let’s waylay some harmless soul;
12 let’s swallow them alive, like the grave, and whole, like those who go down to the pit;
13 we will get all sorts of valuable things and fill our houses with plunder;
14 throw in your lot with us, and we will share a common purse”—
15 my son, do not go along with them, do not set foot on their paths;
16 for their feet rush into sin, they are swift to shed blood.
17 How useless to spread a net in full view of all the birds!
18 These men lie in wait for their own blood; they waylay only themselves!
19 Such is the end of all who go after ill-gotten gain; it takes away the lives of those who get it.
20 Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares;
21 at the head of the noisy streets she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech:
22 “How long will you simple ones love your simple ways? How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge?
23 If you had responded to my rebuke, I would have poured out my heart to you and made my thoughts known to you.
24 But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand,
25 since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke,
26 I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
28 “Then they will call to me but I will not answer; they will look for me but will not find me.
29 Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the LORD,
30 since they would not accept my advice and spurned my rebuke,
31 they will eat the fruit of their ways and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.
32 For the waywardness of the simple will kill them, and the complacency of fools will destroy them;
33 but whoever listens to me will live in safety and be at ease, without fear of harm.”

 

 

Proverbs 2 (NIV)
1 My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you,
2 turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding,
3 and if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding,
4 and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure,
5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom, and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
7 He holds victory in store for the upright, he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless,
8 for he guards the course of the just and protects the way of his faithful ones.
9 Then you will understand what is right and just and fair—every good path.
10 For wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul.
11 Discretion will protect you, and understanding will guard you.
12 Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men, from men whose words are perverse,
13 who leave the straight paths to walk in dark ways,
14 who delight in doing wrong and rejoice in the perverseness of evil,
15 whose paths are crooked and who are devious in their ways.
16 It will save you also from the adulteress, from the wayward wife with her seductive words,
17 who has left the partner of her youth and ignored the covenant she made before God.
18 For her house leads down to death and her paths to the spirits of the dead.
19 None who go to her return or attain the paths of life.
20 Thus you will walk in the ways of good men and keep to the paths of the righteous.
21 For the upright will live in the land, and the blameless will remain in it;
22 but the wicked will be cut off from the land, and the unfaithful will be torn from it.

 

 

Proverbs 3 (NIV)
1 My son, do not forget my teaching, but keep my commands in your heart,
2 for they will prolong your life many years and bring you prosperity.
3 Let love and faithfulness never leave you; bind them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your heart.
4 Then you will win favor and a good name in the sight of God and man.
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil.
8 This will bring health to your body and nourishment to your bones.
9 Honor the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops;
10 then your barns will be filled to overflowing, and your vats will brim over with new wine.
11 My son, do not despise the LORD’s discipline and do not resent his rebuke,
12 because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in.
13 Blessed is the man who finds wisdom, the man who gains understanding,
14 for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold.
15 She is more precious than rubies; nothing you desire can compare with her.
16 Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor.
17 Her ways are pleasant ways, and all her paths are peace.
18 She is a tree of life to those who embrace her; those who lay hold of her will be blessed.
19 By wisdom the LORD laid the earth’s foundations, by understanding he set the heavens in place;
20 by his knowledge the deeps were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew.
21 My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment, do not let them out of your sight;
22 they will be life for you, an ornament to grace your neck.
23 Then you will go on your way in safety, and your foot will not stumble;
24 when you lie down, you will not be afraid; when you lie down, your sleep will be sweet.
25 Have no fear of sudden disaster or of the ruin that overtakes the wicked,
26 for the LORD will be your confidence and will keep your foot from being snared.
27 Do not withhold good from those who deserve it, when it is in your power to act.
28 Do not say to your neighbor, “Come back later; I’ll give it tomorrow”— when you now have it with you.
29 Do not plot harm against your neighbor, who lives trustfully near you.
30 Do not accuse a man for no reason— when he has done you no harm.
31 Do not envy a violent man or choose any of his ways,
32 for the LORD detests a perverse man but takes the upright into his confidence.
33 The LORD’s curse is on the house of the wicked, but he blesses the home of the righteous.
34 He mocks proud mockers but gives grace to the humble.
35 The wise inherit honor, but fools he holds up to shame.

[Qnts2]

When Christ met the men on the road to Emmaus, he interpreted the scriptures to them in a way they had not previously understood. These men, who knew the Hebrew scripture so well, did not actually see what was truly written there.

 

 

In the OT, there are two seeminly opposing prophesies about the Messiah.

 

1. The Messiah would come, defeat the enemies of Israel, teach the truth, be King of Israel, and it would be a time greater then the time of the King of David.

2. The Messiah would come and die.

 

The various Jewish OT scholars looked at these two contradictory prophesies concerning the Messiah, and believing there are no contraditions in scripture, they thought of ways where both of these prophesies could be true. So they came up with future possibilities. 

 

There were some rules which could not be violated in Judaism.

 

1. the Messiah would be a man.

2. Men die

3. But, the Messiah had to fulfill the role of sitting on Davids throne.

 

How can the Messiah die, and bring about the glorious Kingdom.

 

1. There are two Messiahs. First the one who would die, and second the one who triumphed

2. Which Messiah to come was based on the worthiness of Israel.

3. There was one Messiah, who would accomplish both somehow.  

 

With Jesus answer, He was pointing to the 3rd option. It is in scripture.

 

Looking at prophesy before it happens, leads to trying to figure out what it will look like when it happens. In Christianity, how many differing interpretations do we have in trying to understand the end times and the book of Revelation? A whole bunch. Obviously not all are right and probably not all will be wrong. When that day comes, and we actually see what God does, we will understand the prophesy and how God always meant it to play out.

[pawz]

Indeed Fez, and I understand why you are saying this - and I agree. Mysticism or esoteric knowledge is not what I am after, just accurate knowledge of what scripture is saying and what the symbolisms mean.

 

Qnts2, thankyou for the balance of your response, I  hear what you say and will seek to remember this good advice.    What got me started on this journey was the offence I felt because, as I saw it,  the translators were introducing their own bias into the translations of the Hebrew into Engliah. I feel strongly that God's word is GOD'S word, and should be  translated to the nearest nuance possible to the meaning and context of the word in the original language.  One  example in Hebrew is the word  'nephesh', translated 'soul' ( 'vitality' in the abstract) in our bibles when in reference to  mankind but when to an animal the translation given is always 'creature'. From this the understanding has been developed that we  humans have something  called an immortal soul whereas animals do not. My point is not to argue that animals do or do not have souls, but that an artificial difference has come into being because the translators decided that distinction should be made - moreover the 'soul' described in Hebrew  is to do with the whole person, a breathing entity, not  referencing some spiritual entity indwelling  fallen man. That man does have something animals do not can be assumed because he is made in the image of God, but that supposition does not give men permission to change what  the Hebrew word means to what they think it ought to mean, does it?  Am I being too simplistic here?  I  understand that Hebrew is a picture-language and many words can have multiple meanings, but if the good Lord says nephesh means 'creature',  by what justification does the translator change it to 'soul' when it is being applied to man, except  from his own thinking? Did it ever connote  'soul' in the ancient Hebrew understanding I wonder? Anyway, that sort of thing is what got me going, in both Hebrew and Greek.

[pawz]

ps, thank you for your second response Qnts2 lovely to have these things so clearly set out - appreciated. I wrote the above before I saw that

JDB you have written SO much, I feel quite honoured that you should go to all that effort to help me - thank you. Right now I have to go and do boring things like feed animals and husband, so cannot take it in. Instead I shall copy and paste it and add it to  my scripture notes for future perusal.

 

You are all a wonderful lot on here. Hugs all round

[Qnts2]

Indeed Fez, and I understand why you are saying this - and I agree. Mysticism or esoteric knowledge is not what I am after, just accurate knowledge of what scripture is saying and what the symbolisms mean.

 

Qnts2, thankyou for the balance of your response, I  hear what you say and will seek to remember this good advice.    What got me started on this journey was the offence I felt because, as I saw it,  the translators were introducing their own bias into the translations of the Hebrew into Engliah. I feel strongly that God's word is GOD'S word, and should be  translated to the nearest nuance possible to the meaning and context of the word in the original language.  One  example in Hebrew is the word  'nephesh', translated 'soul' ( 'vitality' in the abstract) in our bibles when in reference to  mankind but when to an animal the translation given is always 'creature'. From this the understanding has been developed that we  humans have something  called an immortal soul whereas animals do not. My point is not to argue that animals do or do not have souls, but that an artificial difference has come into being because the translators decided that distinction should be made - moreover the 'soul' described in Hebrew  is to do with the whole person, a breathing entity, not  referencing some spiritual entity indwelling  fallen man. That man does have something animals do not can be assumed because he is made in the image of God, but that supposition does not give men permission to change what  the Hebrew word means to what they think it ought to mean, does it?  Am I being too simplistic here?  I  understand that Hebrew is a picture-language and many words can have multiple meanings, but if the good Lord says nephesh means 'creature',  by what justification does the translator change it to 'soul' when it is being applied to man, except  from his own thinking? Did it ever connote  'soul' in the ancient Hebrew understanding I wonder? Anyway, that sort of thing is what got me going, in both Hebrew and Greek.

 

Nephesh means soul but in the English language, creature is better in some circumstances . 

 

Humans are a different category of being then all else because scripture put Adam and Eve to care for the other animals. Humans are said to be made in the image of God. In Hebrew thought, animals have souls, or maybe the terminology should be animals are souls. Humans have or are souls. So, we have a human soul and an animal soul. There is something different about those souls, animal and human. But they are both souls.

 

The best example I can think of is the animals have bodies. Humans have bodies. They both have bodies but the bodies are different.

 

It would not be terribly wrong to say that a dog is a creature, when referring to a dog soul. It is emphasizing the difference between a human soul and a dog soul. They are different, but in modern English, the concept of a soul in the 'English mindset' is different enough so that calling a dog a soul the way people sometimes refer to a human who is having difficulties as a 'poor soul', adds to confusion. In Hebrew, sometimes a soul and a body are thought of as the same entity, where in English, they are viewed only as separate things. If the idea of a soul and body being the same entity were applied, then a dog soul/body and a human soul/body can be understood as both soul/bodies but distinctly different.

 

Genesis 1:24

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature (nephesh chai) after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

 

 

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (nephesh chai).

 

Basically, since Hebrew has a different mindset for some things then the English mindset, sometimes a word for word translation needs a little adjustment to convey the correct accurate meaning. So, translating nephesh as soul when referring to an animal, would not necessarily work in English. Creature is a better translation to provide the correct understanding.