WilliamL Posted January 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,142 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,564 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Matt. 5:48 “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.” 2 Cor. 12:9 “...My [the Lord's] grace is sufficient for thee, for my strength is made perfect in weakness.” James 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear: because fear has torment. He that fears is not made perfect in love. What does it mean to be perfect? How do we become perfect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted January 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 733 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,017 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/01/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/09/1966 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Matthew 5:48 - God is perfect and, so, the standard that He sets is perfect. It can be nothing less or God would be compromising His own perfection. Even the standard of the law is perfection. But, it's an unattainable standard for people to meet. But that's the glory of the gospel. Jesus met that standard for us, on our behalf. 2 Corinthians 12:9 - Being that God is perfect, so is everything about Him, including His strength. I love that the verb tense in this scripture is present tense, not past tense. God's strength IS perfect in our weaknesses. His grace IS sufficient. They're constantly available. What's being said in this scripture is that God's grace and strength shine through our weaknesses. The weaker we are, the more they shine through. James 1:4 - This scripture is a reference to our spiritual maturity, not sinless perfection. The testing of our faith is intended to drive us deeper into communion, trust and faith in Jesus. Those are qualities that make us complete, or whole. 1 John 4:18 - Again, God is perfect. And, since God IS love (it's not just an attribute of His), that Love is perfect. Love is the confidence we have in fear and judgment. Romans 7:14-24 tells us that as long as we're in our bodies, we're going to struggle with our sinful nature. Sinless perfection won't be reached until we get to heaven. But, as we go through life's trials (and blessings) we're BEING perfected and sanctified. We're maturing. It's an ongoing process, one that we should always be striving to move forward in. The disciples all that they weren't perfect. They all struggled with sin. We can't claim otherwise. Jesus' perfection is imputed to us, even though we are continually maturing in holiness. Hebrews 10:14, "For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted January 26, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) It depends on what we think of as perfection. It typically reminds us of what may be at the pinnacle of progress, becoming more powerful, sophisticated, intelligent, spiritual, stable, appropriate, and even beautiful. The ideas of perfection tend to support getting one's teeth polished and succeeding financially so that one may donate to charity at public functions. And we adopt some of those ideas into Christianity - positive thinking, cleanliness, being organized, eating the right foods, being fit, acting lovingly and and having a permanent smile. Then we could go further and talk about regular prayer and Bible study, attending all church gatherings, doing meals for the homeless, knowing all doctrines of truth, giving our money away to mission work and fasting. So the general call for perfection for most of us is an impossible uphill climb of some sort. Is it? What happened to the words of Christ who said, "Take my yoke upon you, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light." ? Is perfection up hill or down hill? Is it about gain or loss? Is it about rising higher or stooping lower? Is it about building on self or giving up on self? Is not the perfection of God to become the unnoticed and nameless servant? The Bible says "He made Himself of no reputation" - No reputation. That's an easy downhill ride isn't it? While the world is striving to be.. "it." Edited January 26, 2015 by Kan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 What happened to the words of Christ who said, "Take my yoke upon you, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light." ? What Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. John 15:3 Indeed~! Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. John 15:4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Nice Posted January 27, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 118 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2015 Perfect is as perfect does. God loved us so much that He sent His Son to be our example of what it means to love God and to die for our sins. The love of God was perfected in Christ because He kept His Father's commandments. Likewise, if we keep the Father's commandments His love will be perfected in us, making us perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect. God is perfect in love. We are to love Him with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, denying ourselves and taking up our cross and following Him daily. 1Jn 2:3-6 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. (4) The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; (5) but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: (6) the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked. Great questions and statements Kan. We are also told that His commandments are not burdensome. We are told we are not tempted/tested with more than we are able and He will always provide the way out so we are able to endure, remaining faithful to Him. God has never given a command He didn't expect us to keep. He has never left those who have faith in Him without hope or the strength to do what He has commanded. 1Jn 5:1-5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. (2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. (3) For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. (4) For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. (5) Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? God is always with us if we obey Him through the Spirit just like Christ did: Joh 8:29-32 "And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him." (30) As He spoke these things, many came to believe in Him. (31) So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; (32) and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." If Christ says the truth will set us free, He means freedom from the world and its corruption. If we truly have faith in all we have been promised, believing Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then we will overcome the world, by keeping His commandments, and thus having His love perfected in us here on earth. For John also says that those who have His love perfected in them are like Him in this world. We don't have to wait until Christ returns to be like Him, loving God with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength, thus being perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect. God wants us to know what it means to abide in Him now. He wants us to have the peace that passes all understanding while on this earth so that we can share it with those around us. 1Jn 4:16-17 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. (17) By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. Php 4:4-9 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice! (5) Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near. (6) Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. (7) And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. (8) Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. (9) The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you. He gave us His commandments to keep so that we could demonstrate to the the world that we love the Father and the Son just like Christ loved the Father. Joh 14:31 but so that the world may know that I love the Father, I do exactly as the Father commanded Me. Get up, let us go from here. We need to remember Jesus said all things are possible with God. We need to believe that God will bring His purpose (Sanctification by the Spirit) to pass. Let us start living according to His standard instead of declaring it is impossible like Judah and Israel claimed. They claimed it was hopeless, that they could not completely turn from their wicked ways, and that they would only continue to fulfill the desires of their stubborn evil hearts. God said their claim was a most appalling thing. Jer 18:11-13 "So now then, speak to the men of Judah and against the inhabitants of Jerusalem saying, 'Thus says the LORD, "Behold, I am fashioning calamity against you and devising a plan against you. Oh turn back, each of you from his evil way, and reform your ways and your deeds."' (12) "But they will say, 'It's hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.' (13) "Therefore thus says the LORD, 'Ask now among the nations, Who ever heard the like of this? The virgin of Israel Has done a most appalling thing. His standard of perfection is love from a pure heart. Christ is our example to follow. Let us imitate Christ as Paul said he imitated Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmbld Posted January 27, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Trust in Jesus, the One who is perfect, you can strive to be perfect in your own power, and never succeed. But by trusting Jesus, Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinky Posted January 27, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,602 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 291 Days Won: 8 Joined: 10/24/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1986 Share Posted January 27, 2015 God requires sinless perfection for one to enter Heaven. Scripture teaches us, that on our own, we can never be perfect enough to gain salvation. That's why Jesus had to come and die in our place. Only His sinless, perfect blood could blot out our sins. His righteousness is placed into our account - through repentance and faith - thus insuring our acceptance before a Holy God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted January 27, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2015 God requires sinless perfection for one to enter Heaven. Scripture teaches us that, on our own, we can never be perfect enough to gain salvation. That's why Jesus had to come and die in our place. Only His sinless, perfect blood could blot out our sins. His righteousness is placed in our account - through repentance and faith - thus insuring our acceptance before a Holy God. Amen sister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted January 27, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,142 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,564 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 [i prepared this post last Tuesday, but the site crashed before I was able to post it. Was then unable to get back into the site until today, from various computers tried. Anyone else have this problem?] James 1:4 - This scripture is a reference to our spiritual maturity, not sinless perfection. The testing of our faith is intended to drive us deeper into communion, trust and faith in Jesus. Those are qualities that make us complete, or whole. ... I prepared this post off-line, because the subject came up during a fellowship meeting last Friday [Jan. 14]. After I posted it, I then discovered that similar questions had already been posted! (Great minds think alike?) Anyway, here are the answers I was most looking for, from two other strings: Willa, 16 January 2015 - 01:15 PM (Christ's Perfection) The Hebrews passage about being made perfect means literally to be made complete. He was brought to maturity. He obeyed the Father perfectly even during ridicule, beatings, going to the cross and suffering for us. Shiloh357, December 2014 - 01:21 PM (Christian perfection) The word "perfect" in the Greek is not referring to flawless perfection. It refers to maturity and completeness with God as our plumline. We are not commanded to be as flawless as He is; that would be an absurd, unreachable goal as God's perfection cannot be obtained by any creature. True. The words used for "perfect" in the original post all derive from the Greek root tello, the primary meaning of which is to complete, to fulfill, to finish. When Jesus said on the cross, "It is finished [tetelestai]," he was using the same root word. Our task is not to become perfect like God is perfect in the sense of infallibility, omniscience, etc.: that will forever be impossible. Our task is to become fulfilled and completed in our respective callings, that is, to fulfill the unique purposes for which each of us was created. We can only achieve that fulfillment when we have Christ's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, in us and working though us. If we do, then we can say at the end of our lives, like Paul said: 2 Tim. 4:6 I have fought the good fight, I have finished [teteleka] the race, I have kept the faith. One final thing. God created man on the sixth day of his Creation: man was the last work of God before he took his rest on the seventh day: Gen. 1:27 And God created man... 31 ...So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 ...and [God] rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. So all Creation was finished/fulfilled with the race of Adam. Now, at the end of the sixth millennium, both the race of Adam and all Creation is to be ultimately fulfilled in the purpose of its existence: Rom. 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted January 27, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2015 ... 1Jn 5:1-5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. (2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. (3) For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. (4) For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. (5) Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? God is always with us if we obey Him through the Spirit just like Christ did: Joh 8:29-32 "And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him." (30) As He spoke these things, many came to believe in Him. (31) So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; (32) and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." If Christ says the truth will set us free, He means freedom from the world and its corruption. If we truly have faith in all we have been promised, believing Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then we will overcome the world, by keeping His commandments, and thus having His love perfected in us here on earth. For John also says that those who have His love perfected in them are like Him in this world. We don't have to wait until Christ returns to be like Him, loving God with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength, thus being perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect. God wants us to know what it means to abide in Him now. He wants us to have the peace that passes all understanding while on this earth so that we can share it with those around us. 1Jn 4:16-17 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. (17) By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. ... Yes, corruption is a terrible burden, and if we don't feel that because we are so numb to reality, which is what sin does to us, then God in His love will chasten us, to feel what an awful burden sin really is, and because God chastens all those whom He loves, even the wicked, they don't have any rest. Mick Jagger - "I can't get no satisfaction." The truth will free us of endless self interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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