What exactly is grace?

[BlindSeeker]

(I just figure I would restart this older thread and see where it goes this time . . . )

There are many threads that have, or are, reasoning grace, and I am sure more will continue to follow. However, I am persuaded that there are many differing conceptions about what exactly "grace" is.

I'm also therefore persuaded that not all can be right. I think we are comparing apples and oranges most of the time, when we need to be comparing apples to apples and/or oranges to oranges.

Certainly, we should be able to extract some insight from God's word to help clarify:

• What is Grace?
  
• When does Grace become effectual in a person?
  
• Why isn't Grace effectual in everyone?
  
• How does Grace become frustrated?
  
• If Grace is frustrated, are there consequences?
  
• Is Grace strictly a New Testament phenomenon?
  

My intention is pretty much just to listen to the responses and to only ask questions of declarations which I feel are not presented with a sound scriptural foundation.

If we are saved by grace, and grace alone, I think we owe it to ourselves and to each other to at least attempt to biblically define it that we all might embrace it with one mind and heart.

"Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

[wordsower]

OK, since yall are skeered, I'll go first, I got my sheild and my sword

Well Blindseeker,

I know we do not see eye to eye on many things so it will be interesting to see where this goes:

What is Grace?

[tsth]

Dear BlindS,

I look forward to seeing more responses on this, due to the fact that I too am longing to understand more.

[tsth]

Last night I was lead to the Scriptures in 1 Corinthians 1 & 2.

[Guest shilou]

Anyone jump in there and correct me if I'm wrong. A sinner comes to God after realizing the pitifulness of self. We come broken and battered, filled with anger, self pity, desparation and self loathing. We fall to our knees and cry out what is wrong with me I'm wretched and God respondes to our heartfelt cry. In those moments the Holy Spirit decends and comforts us, and we without ever deserving it feel God's love for us. It is in that moment we recieve grace and as the knowledge of His grace settles into our war torn souls we fall in Love with Him. Hope that all is not lost is reborn. So we chase Him and fill ourselves up with His knowledge. We thirst for Him and we just can't get enough and our love grows. Out of that grows a desire to please Him because we want to show Him how grateful we are and how much we love Him. We know where we came from and know we don't deserve it but we can not deny He loves us anyway.

Grace becomes frustrated when we forget that it is given freely and we go back to depending on self. We start thinking we have to work for it and with that also comes doubt that we have it. Then we start running around telling everyone how they can get it by doing this and that instead of telling them they can recieve it.

This here is an example of frustration I think, each of us is different. I'm sitting here trying to figure out which verses to throw in there to make my point. But I don't read scripture in a dissecting way, I read it as the greatest love story ever told, one that contains real people with real life stories. God made me as one who paints HIs pictures from the heart, and knows how to reach the heart. So I'll just accept He made me the way I'm supposed to be. But I have to tell you that putting us all together makes quite a beautiful mosaic for the Lord. That is where I think alot of times we run into problems is by thinking my way is the right way instead of acknowledging the different gifts that are working together here to bring out the whole story.

I just want to leave off with saying it is love that makes me seek His wisdom, not wisdom that creates the love. It was recieving underserving grace that planted that seed of love. There is nothing that I can do to deserve His grace, but there is much I want to do to show Him how much I love Him.

In Yeshua's love

Shilou

[wordsower]

Shilou,

That was beautiful!  I felt the power of the Holy Spirit in every word you typed.  Blessings to you,

[tsth]

Dear Shilou,

I just wanted to comment on a couple of things you said.

Grace becomes frustrated when we forget that it is given freely and we go back to depending on self. We start thinking we have to work for it and with that also comes doubt that we have it. Then we start running around telling everyone how they can get it by doing this and that instead of telling them they can recieve it.

I believe grace becomes frustrated, when we go back to our "own" knowledge and turn from the agreement we have, that the Lord's wisdom and knowledge is right.  When we are in agreement with the Lord about His Sovereignty and His wisdom and power, we are walking according to the Spirit. When we are in agreement with His Word. But....when we begin to get away from that and walk in our own understandings, then we frustrate the working power of God's grace afforded to us by His Son Jesus Christ.

We come broken and battered, filled with anger, self pity, desparation and self loathing.

We do come to this point, but that is not the completed picture.  It is completed by whether or not we are willing to agree with what God says about our sinfulness, and whether or not we are willing in our brokenness, to agree with God, to the point of now following Him and what He says in His Word.....His Commands.  It is not enough to be broken and to even acknowledge our brokenness, it must be to the point of wanting to now be in agreement with His Commands, that they are right and good.  They are His teachings for us.  It is the picture of repentance.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[JohnS]

God's way of deliverance is altogether different from man's way. Man's way is to try to suppress sin by seeking to overcome it; God's way is to remove the sinner. Many Christians mourn over their weakness, thinking that if only they were stronger all would be well. But God's means of delivering us from sin is not by making us stronger and stronger; rather, it is by making us weaker and weaker. God sets us free from the dominion of sin, not by strengthening our old man, but by crucifying him; not by helping him to do anything, but by entirely removing him from the scene of action.

I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

It is not an intellectual knowledge at all, but an opening of the eyes of the heart...to see what we have in Christ.

GRACE MEANS THAT GOD HAS DONE SOMETHING FOR ME;LAW MEANS THAT I MUST DO SOMETHING FOR GOD

[BlindSeeker]

. . .

[BlindSeeker]

Amen Sweet Sister Suzanne  :il: