disciplehelovestoo Posted February 2, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 159 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 81 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/10/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2015 Rom 2:4 KJV (4) Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? suf·fer ˈsəfər/Submit verb 1. experience or be subjected to (something bad or unpleasant). "he'd suffered intense pain" synonyms: hurt, ache, be in pain, feel pain; More 2. dated tolerate. "France will no longer suffer the existing government" synonyms: tolerate, put up with, bear, stand, abide, endure; formalbrook "he was obliged to suffer her intimate proximity"suffering is not good; it is not sweet; suffering is evil, it is bitter - suffering is not a blessing, it is a curse; it is evil. we must endure the suffering of persecution in order to preach the gospel to the lost, as many will reject it and strive to make us suffer for preaching the gospel to them that convicts them of their evil hearts toward God's goodness - but this suffering is from the devil, not God. suffering is not a tool that God uses to correct - scripture is that tool; suffering does not cause positive change - the goodness of God causes positive change. Jas 5:10 KJV (10) Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience. God did not cause His prophets to suffer, their suffering the result of the efforts of evil men yielded to the devil in opposition to God's message delivered by His prophets Isa 5:20 KJV (20) Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! you get what you have effective faith in; if you have faith in suffering, you will suffer - this iis why woe comes to those who call evil good and good evil thanks for your contribution, but what do you make or think of this passage, Deuteronomy 8:3 &116" 3 And He humbled thee and suffered thee to hunger.... Please take time to study that very passage very well. the use of the word 'suffer' in verse 3 has the meaning of 'allow' (definition #2 in my previous post); not sure what scripture you are referencing as 8:116 Deu 8:3 KJV (3) And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live. but don't loose sight of why they went hungry - it was not a sovereign act of God, but their own disobedience that caused them to be moved by the desert's lack of food supply. Exo 15:26 KJV (26) And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee. ... Exo 16:1-4 KJV (1) And they took their journey from Elim, and all the congregation of the children of Israel came unto the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after their departing out of the land of Egypt. (2) And the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness: (3) And the children of Israel said unto them, Would to God we had died by the hand of the LORD in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the flesh pots, and when we did eat bread to the full; for ye have brought us forth into this wilderness, to kill this whole assembly with hunger. (4) Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no. they could have simply asked God where they would find food out of faith in His goodness toward them as evidenced by His mighty works to bring them out of egypt both healed and rich; but instead they accused God of trying to starve them - this after seeing all of the mighty works God did to set them free from slavery! so was it God that failed to feed them, or was it their own unbelief that separated them from His supply? Jas 1:13-14 KJV (13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. this clearly says that God does not tempt (test) any man AT ALL; much less tempt any man to the limits of what he can handle! 1Co 10:13 KJV (13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. not only does God NOT tempt man, but He limits how much the devil can tempt us so that we aren't overwhelmed - and He provides a way to escape the temptation so that we can bear the devil's test. when you get sick do you try to get well, or do you humble yourself and bear it until you learn the lesson that He is trying to teach you through the test of sickness? if you truly believe that God tests you and teaches you through suffering, then why would you try to avoid the test and miss the point of the lesson by taking action to alleviating your suffering? isn't this disobedience? and how can you tell the difference between instructional suffering from God and oppressive suffering brought about by the devil? is this not confusion? also, notice that the word 'suffer' in this verse means 'allow' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted February 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Here is something controversial I have been mediating on of late. And please understand I have not come to a full conclusion yet. It might sound very harsh (we sugar coat so much stuff nowadays, but within the statement I think there is some truth..) God does not care if we die. God cares if we are saved. Why do you think that God does not care if we die?Do you have Scripture to support that Fez or why you feel as you do on this? Read my post again. I said I am meditating on it, I did not say I have reached a conclusion yet. Have you got any scripture that proves that He does "care" if we die or not? Solid to the point scripture, not obtuse verses? They would help me in my meditiation on this. (sometimes I meditate on one thought for weeks before arriving at a conclusion). Why do I feel as I do on this? I don't feel anything either way, I am as I said, meditating on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustine17 Posted February 2, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 51 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Well I don't think he cares about physical death as much as spiritual since those alive in Christ are resurrected anyways. If you look at Jeremiah He told him that the people would not overcome him even though he was treated so horribly and Jeremiah was fooled thinking that's what he meant, when in the end Jeremiah will be proven a victor and at the resurrection his enemies will be put under his feet. 7 O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived; thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me. 8 For since I spake, I cried out, I cried violence and spoil; because the word of the Lord was made a reproach unto me, and a derision, daily. 9 Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay. 10 For I heard the defaming of many, fear on every side. Report, say they, and we will report it. All my familiars watched for my halting, saying, Peradventure he will be enticed, and we shall prevail against him, and we shall take our revenge on him. 11 But the Lord is with me as a mighty terrible one: therefore my persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail: they shall be greatly ashamed; for they shall not prosper: their everlasting dismay shall never be forgotten. Jeremiah 20:7-11 Even though the children of God are persecuted they are considered 'more than victors' by Paul the Apostle, and they are described as those who conquered the world and also Paul expressed about certain people of faith in scripture that 'the world was not worthy of them'. I don't think it is complete apathy towards physical death since He has spared his children from being persecuted in that way evidently like David, Jehoshaphat, and also Mordecai as well as Esther and even the multitude of Jews in their time. However it is circumstantial. Not every believer is executed, some are transformed at the last trumpet, and others are buried and die(physically) in peace, like David, Abraham, and Jacob/Israel for example.. Not everyone who believes in The Way is tortured by men. Not everyone who believes is put in prison for their faith. But the more suffering the greater the joy later. Paul even expressed certain believers were tortured and refused to be released for a better resurrection. Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; - Hebrews 11:35 Edited February 2, 2015 by Augustine17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2015 Here is something controversial I have been mediating on of late. And please understand I have not come to a full conclusion yet. It might sound very harsh (we sugar coat so much stuff nowadays, but within the statement I think there is some truth..) God does not care if we die. God cares if we are saved. Why do you think that God does not care if we die?Do you have Scripture to support that Fez or why you feel as you do on this? Read my post again. I said I am meditating on it, I did not say I have reached a conclusion yet. Have you got any scripture that proves that He does "care" if we die or not? Solid to the point scripture, not obtuse verses? They would help me in my meditiation on this. (sometimes I meditate on one thought for weeks before arriving at a conclusion). Why do I feel as I do on this? I don't feel anything either way, I am as I said, meditating on it. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted February 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Well I don't think he cares about physical death as much as spiritual since those alive in Christ are resurrected anyways. If you look at Jeremiah He told him that the people would not overcome him even though he was treated so horribly and Jeremiah was fooled thinking that's what he meant, when in the end Jeremiah will be proven a victor and at the resurrection his enemies will be put under his feet. 7 O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived; thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me. 8 For since I spake, I cried out, I cried violence and spoil; because the word of the Lord was made a reproach unto me, and a derision, daily. 9 Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay. 10 For I heard the defaming of many, fear on every side. Report, say they, and we will report it. All my familiars watched for my halting, saying, Peradventure he will be enticed, and we shall prevail against him, and we shall take our revenge on him. 11 But the Lord is with me as a mighty terrible one: therefore my persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail: they shall be greatly ashamed; for they shall not prosper: their everlasting dismay shall never be forgotten. Jeremiah 20:7-11 Even though the children of God are persecuted they are considered 'more than victors' by Paul the Apostle, and they are described as those who conquered the world and also Paul expressed about certain people of faith in scripture that 'the world was not worthy of them'. I don't think it is complete apathy towards physical death since He has spared his children from being persecuted in that way evidently like David, Jehoshaphat, and also Mordecai as well as Esther and even the multitude of Jews in their time. However it is circumstantial. Not every believer is executed, some are transformed at the last trumpet, and others are buried and die(physically) in peace, like David, Abraham, and Jacob/Israel for example.. Not everyone who believes in The Way is tortured by men. Not everyone who believes is put in prison for their faith. But the more suffering the greater the joy later. Paul even expressed certain believers were tortured and refused to be released for a better resurrection. Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; - Hebrews 11:35 Well I don't think he cares about physical death as much as spiritual since those alive in Christ are resurrected anyways. Now we are getting somewhere! Nice post! I don't think it is complete apathy towards physical death since He has spared his children from being persecuted in that way evidently like David, Jehoshaphat, and also Mordecai as well as Esther and even the multitude of Jews in their time True, but it is also known that every disciple bar John was martyred for their faith. Did the Lord care if they died? Maybe not, but He certainly felt their suffering. Brace yourselves, as I told bopeep I don't know exactly where I am going with this, but such is meditating on something.... (and listening to others opinions and ideas) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 2, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,144 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,836 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Online Share Posted February 2, 2015 Blessings Fez.... When I read the statement you said you are meditating on "God does not care if we die"I immediately thought "Why would He,we simply go on to the next phase of our eternal life,with Him" You followed that up with "God does care if we are Saved" & again I had an immediate thought "Of course He does" Brother,I don't even see the need to refer to a particular verse of Scripture,,,,,,,,,,,,I think every Word God has ever spoken to us says how much He loves us & His desire for us is to be with Him for all eternity................... The verdict is not in for me either Fez but I think we see our mortal physical life much differently than God does,He sees us in spirit already & for us it is the "unknown"................it is a lot to meditate on after the intitial re-action.....................thanks Fez,good question Love ya,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted February 2, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,256 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,671 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2015 Suffering, pain, trials, they're what softens hearts and able to lead a person to the purest form of love. Suffering is the path to so many beautiful things, one being that suffering is desperate for relief from the pain, after suffering through a lot, that person turns to god because they've already tried everything the world has to offer with no relief. Upon looking to him he fills the suffering heart with the perfect medicine, which establishes in hearts the truth that we need him. The father truly desires that we suffer, he will allow us to suffer any time we need it. And we need it a lot! It's wise to see joy in trials because trials bring forth good in us. Sometimes a trial is God disciplining us, he only disciplines his children! A big reason to smile there! He doesn't discipline for nothing, he does it in order to develop our character. Hopefully that answers your question ( : I agree with this as it has also been my experience. But I have never been able to chalk suffering up as joy. I really hate to suffer and always told the Lord that if He really wants to be glorified, He might choose another way to do it in my case because I don't suffer well at all. He told me to stop complaining and reminded me of the children of Israel complaining in the wilderness. Suffering is a purifying process. The fire of affliction burns away the dross. Often I endured suffering to keep me humble and closely relying on Him. It is so much my nature to say Oh, I can handle this, and do it all in my own strength. He wants me relying on His wisdom and strength. He wants to remove the I, the self life, the selfishness till only He can be seen in me. So it looks like more suffering is in the future because the I is very much alive, well and kicking. As for Fez's comment. God cares about each sparrow that falls. But EZ 18:32 does say that He has no pleasure in the death of one who dies, therefore turn and live. So He wills that all men come to repentance. He says do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him that is able to destroy both the body and soul in hell. Matt. 10:28 NKJV He goes on to say that not one sparrow falls to the ground apart from your Father's will , and don't fear because we are of more value than many sparrows. I don't think we fully grasp how that when we are born again, we have truly passed from death into eternal life. Our lives are now hid in Christ.. It is hard to comprehend that this life is being swallowed up by immortality, and that we are the eternal soul. Our bodies are just a hinderance to fully being a part of eternity. Reading 1 Cor 15:35 to the end of the chapter is referring to this. We are so connected to what we see in the mirror that we fail to see what God sees. He does not see the outward appearance but our hearts or our souls. 1 Sam. 16:7 So right now my body is very week. Sometimes it is difficult to think cohesively. I am supposed to be strong in Christ, but I don't even feel that amid the bouts of severe coughing that causes my face to break out with burst blood vessels. OnceDaddy God asked me what I feared--was it dying? That would be like falling backwards into Daddy God's arms. There are several here on Worthy who look forward to being enfolded in Daddy God's arms. Graduation Day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry1023 Posted February 2, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 427 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 156 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/29/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/20/1980 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Suffering, pain, trials, they're what softens hearts and able to lead a person to the purest form of love. Suffering is the path to so many beautiful things, one being that suffering is desperate for relief from the pain, after suffering through a lot, that person turns to god because they've already tried everything the world has to offer with no relief. Upon looking to him he fills the suffering heart with the perfect medicine, which establishes in hearts the truth that we need him. The father truly desires that we suffer, he will allow us to suffer any time we need it. And we need it a lot! It's wise to see joy in trials because trials bring forth good in us. Sometimes a trial is God disciplining us, he only disciplines his children! A big reason to smile there! He doesn't discipline for nothing, he does it in order to develop our character. Hopefully that answers your question ( : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 God does not care if we die.... God cares if we are saved.... Why do you think that God does not care if we die.... Do you have Scripture to support that.... or why you feel as you do on this.... God Loves Us So Very Very Much For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 2 Corinthians 4:11 (ESV) He Shares His I want to know Christ--yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, Philippians 3:10 (NIV) Walk Just as it is written, "FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED." Romans 8:36 (NASB) ~ And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Luke 9:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry1023 Posted February 3, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 427 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 156 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/29/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/20/1980 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Suffering, pain, trials, they're what softens hearts and able to lead a person to the purest form of love. Suffering is the path to so many beautiful things, one being that suffering is desperate for relief from the pain, after suffering through a lot, that person turns to god because they've already tried everything the world has to offer with no relief. Upon looking to him he fills the suffering heart with the perfect medicine, which establishes in hearts the truth that we need him. The father truly desires that we suffer, he will allow us to suffer any time we need it. And we need it a lot! It's wise to see joy in trials because trials bring forth good in us. Sometimes a trial is God disciplining us, he only disciplines his children! A big reason to smile there! He doesn't discipline for nothing, he does it in order to develop our character. Hopefully that answers your question ( : God bless you,I really appreciate your contribution,your replied is good as my understanding, I believed that God deal with us individually, experience is the best teacher, I strongly believe that God do test us, and all things work together for our own good, After my trials,my faith has increase from 60% to 100%, What i learned in this few months of trials, will go a long way in helping my faith in God and my chirstian life. What i experience and understood, has empower to have a kind of Abraham kind of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts