other one Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 Rev 2:1-7 Revelation 2 2:1 "To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this: 2'I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot endure evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false; 3 and you have perseverance and have endured for My name's sake, and have not grown weary. 4'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5'Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lampstand out of its place — unless you repent. 6'Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life , which is in the Paradise of God.' NASB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 I think the Tree of Life represented and was for that eternal life from God, which is beyond just living forever physically. Our bodies must die because of their association with and participation in sin and a sinful nature, but our spirits and souls can live forever with God as we are reconciled to him by His Son, Jesus because of the cross. I don't believe it was meant to be either with God or away from God, just that it meant to live forever, spiritually. There is nothing in scripture that states otherwise. We obtain theories as we read into scripture what scripture does not provide. You are mistaken about the nature of sin to say this, OneLight. Sin kills the soul. God tells us plainly, "the soul that sins will die." It is not just the body that dies, but the soul. But, as the body can and will still die, our souls can have "eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." This gift is given back to men who repent of sin and believe in Christ's work of redemption for them. When one is "born again," as Jesus talked about in John 3, they enter into the kingdom of God, the eternal kingdom and receive this eternal life from God. it is a wonderful gift that was removed from Adam. There spirits and souls are made alive to God. Souls of sinful, unrepentant men, however, do continue on forever, but not with "life," but eternal death and punishment. They perish, as Jesus says. Tell me then, how does Satan and the 1/3 that follow him still live? they are not human, they are angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 If Adam was created to never die, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life, which according to Gen 3:22 would have allowed him to live forever? who said that he was not eating of it before the tree of knowledge... that one tree was the only one forbidden. I am very open to that idea, but I am not sure it squares with the idea physical death is part of the curse of sin! Nope, sorry, but he did not eat of the Tree of Life before he ate of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Otherwise, he would of lived forever. Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever” Or maybe it takes more than one time to stay alive for a very long time and when they ate of the tree of knowledge they would be kicked out of the garden and it would asure that they would some day die. Scripture does not support that theory. How did you garner that from the verse I provided? If they are left in the garden they could still eat freely of that tree. Whatever the case, it's really just an academic discussion for one can think through several ways that it might be accomplished if one wants to just go word for word and accept any of the scenarios that could be drawn up. Eat of the tree of knowledge and from that day forward your death is assured. Are we not going to have access to the tree of life in the next world???? Only those who have repented and accepted the salvation God set forth will have access to the tree of life. Those who reject salvation will not, yet. does their spirit cease to exist or will they live forever seperated from God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 I think the Tree of Life represented and was for that eternal life from God, which is beyond just living forever physically. Our bodies must die because of their association with and participation in sin and a sinful nature, but our spirits and souls can live forever with God as we are reconciled to him by His Son, Jesus because of the cross. I don't believe it was meant to be either with God or away from God, just that it meant to live forever, spiritually. There is nothing in scripture that states otherwise. We obtain theories as we read into scripture what scripture does not provide. You are mistaken about the nature of sin to say this, OneLight. Sin kills the soul. God tells us plainly, "the soul that sins will die." It is not just the body that dies, but the soul. But, as the body can and will still die, our souls can have "eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." This gift is given back to men who repent of sin and believe in Christ's work of redemption for them. When one is "born again," as Jesus talked about in John 3, they enter into the kingdom of God, the eternal kingdom and receive this eternal life from God. it is a wonderful gift that was removed from Adam. There spirits and souls are made alive to God. Souls of sinful, unrepentant men, however, do continue on forever, but not with "life," but eternal death and punishment. They perish, as Jesus says. Tell me then, how does Satan and the 1/3 that follow him still live? they are not human, they are angels. What difference does that make? A spirit is a spirit. It is either good or evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 No, Angels are a unique created being. They are not created in the image of God, and are not created susceptible to death. They were all created as a myriad host. They are not the result of pairs of angels procreating. So our spirit differs hugely from the angels. Unlike angels, our spirits cannot take on physical form. Angels are immortal but do not have eternal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One of millions Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/15/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 OneLight says, "Tell me then, how does Satan and the 1/3 that follow him still live?" Is Satan not dead in sin and separated with no fellowship with God his Creator? Is he not the enemy of God and man? He roams where he will at this moment, but that day will come to an end. The curse upon Satan and the fallen angels is not the same as upon Adam and those that follow him. Men can be redeemed because God's Son gave his life and shed his own blood to buy them back to God. Satan and the fallen angels cannot and will not be redeemed ever. But what does that have to do with the "tree of life?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 Then we are back to square 1. If I am not mistaken classical Christian thought on this matter is that physical death is the result of Adam's sin, it is part of the curse of sin. That would be spiritual death, separation from God. There is nothing in scripture that supports the idea that Adams physical body would of lasted forever. As shiloh said: Physical death is associated with the fall of Adam in Rom. 5:12-21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) That is a good question. It was the thread on physical death that got me to thinking about the tree of life. In that thread the best answer stated that physical death was part of the curse of sin, if this is correct then Adam would have never died had he not sinned. I actually struggle with that concept becaue our entire biological system is a continous cycle of life and death. Had Adam and Eve steadfastly obeyed God, perhaps they would have eventually partaken of the tree of life. The only reason we have a cycle of life and death is because of their disobedience. The important thing to note is that there is a time limit to this cycle, and since a thousand years is God's sight are equivalent to one day, He has seen only about 6 days of this cycle. The "seventh day" will see an end to it. "The last enemy that SHALL BE destroyed is death" (1 Cor 15:26). Edited March 15, 2015 by Ezra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 No, Angels are a unique created being. They are not created in the image of God, and are not created susceptible to death. They were all created as a myriad host. They are not the result of pairs of angels procreating. So our spirit differs hugely from the angels. Unlike angels, our spirits cannot take on physical form. Angels are immortal but do not have eternal life. Man was not mad through procreation either. When you come down to the center of angels and man, we are no more than spirits. Man, however was created in His image, yet we are not told in what image the angels were created, so there is no real foundation to say their spirits are any different than ours. Yes, they do have a different purpose than we do, but I can find nothing claiming their spirit is any different than ours. Who is to say that when we leave this life, we will not be as the angels, though we will not be an actual angel since we were created for a different purpose? Can you provide scripture that the spirit of an angel is not mortal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 15, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2015 OneLight says, "Tell me then, how does Satan and the 1/3 that follow him still live?" Is Satan not dead in sin and separated with no fellowship with God his Creator? Is he not the enemy of God and man? He roams where he will at this moment, but that day will come to an end. The curse upon Satan and the fallen angels is not the same as upon Adam and those that follow him. Men can be redeemed because God's Son gave his life and shed his own blood to buy them back to God. Satan and the fallen angels cannot and will not be redeemed ever. But what does that have to do with the "tree of life?" Where will all those who reject salvation end up? Where will Satan end up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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