Church confessions - good or bad thing?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Yes, the authority He gave to the disciples was the right to legislate and judiciate for the Messianic community that they will lead after Jesus is gone. The words "bind" and "loose" refer to something akin to rabbinic authority and are better expressed as "permit" and "forbid." It basically applies to setting internal disputes in the community as opposed to settling them in front of a local, secular magistrate.

He is not giving them the power to absolve sin. That right belongs to God an God alone.

I have to respectfully disagree. He did give the authority to forgive sins. The binding and loosing is the incorrect passage. That is when he gave his authority to guide his Church.

He gave the authority that was given to him by the Father, and gave it to the apostles. This was the authority to forgive sins.

John 20:21-23

21 Jesus said to them again, " Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you."

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

To me it is very clear that Jesus gave authority to the apostles to forgive sins.

[Guest Teditis]

While I don't believe that a priest has the ability to absolve anybody's sin,

I do think that confession of sins to another is a good thing for the Church body.

 

It's so rarely done outside a confessional or a shrinks office and yet commanded

in the Bible. It's a humbling act to do and brings about a sense of our place in regard

to others as well as God.

I'm all for it!!

[Guest shiloh357]

John 20:21-23 is not conferring the arbitrary authority on clergy to absolve of sin.   The ancient church understood this passage to be in the context of preaching the Gospel and baptism.  They understood that when a person preaches the Gospel and the hearers repent of their sin, the preacher has the authority to declare their sins forgiven.   He is not the one doing the forgiving.  He simply has the authority to say that God has forgiven them of their sins.  

 

Their is NO place in the NT where preachers or priests have been given the divine authority in themselves to absolve us for our sins.  The ONLY person we are told to go to for absolution is  God. (I John 1:9)

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Shiloh, show me where in scripture where Jesus is talking about baptism in John 20:23

Are you saying baptism forgives sins?

[ncn]

John 20:21-23 is not conferring the arbitrary authority on clergy to absolve of sin.   The ancient church understood this passage to be in the context of preaching the Gospel and baptism.  They understood that when a person preaches the Gospel and the hearers repent of their sin, the preacher has the authority to declare their sins forgiven.   He is not the one doing the forgiving.  He simply has the authority to say that God has forgiven them of their sins.  

 

Their is NO place in the NT where preachers or priests have been given the divine authority in themselves to absolve us for our sins.  The ONLY person we are told to go to for absolution is  God. (I John 1:9)

 

I agree as shiloh has pointed out. 

 

1Jn 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 

 

I would just also add,

 

1Ti 2:5

 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 

[OakWood]

 

John 20:21-23 is not conferring the arbitrary authority on clergy to absolve of sin.   The ancient church understood this passage to be in the context of preaching the Gospel and baptism.  They understood that when a person preaches the Gospel and the hearers repent of their sin, the preacher has the authority to declare their sins forgiven.   He is not the one doing the forgiving.  He simply has the authority to say that God has forgiven them of their sins.  

 

Their is NO place in the NT where preachers or priests have been given the divine authority in themselves to absolve us for our sins.  The ONLY person we are told to go to for absolution is  God. (I John 1:9)

 

I agree as shiloh has pointed out. 

 

1Jn 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 

 

I would just also add,

 

1Ti 2:5

 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 

 

 

This verse:-  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; raises another issue, the belief that saints (dead people) can be used as mediators between man and God - but that's another point and another topic altogether.

.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Ncn;

Jesus's words are very clear. He takes the Fathers authority that is given to him and Jesus passes it on to his Apostles.

And it's clearly stated that it's the Authority to forgive sins.

So is Jesus wrong and Paul is correcting Him??

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

John 20:21-23 is not conferring the arbitrary authority on clergy to absolve of sin. The ancient church understood this passage to be in the context of preaching the Gospel and baptism. They understood that when a person preaches the Gospel and the hearers repent of their sin, the preacher has the authority to declare their sins forgiven. He is not the one doing the forgiving. He simply has the authority to say that God has forgiven them of their sins.

Their is NO place in the NT where preachers or priests have been given the divine authority in themselves to absolve us for our sins. The ONLY person we are told to go to for absolution is God. (I John 1:9)

I agree as shiloh has pointed out.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I would just also add,

1Ti 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

This verse:- For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; raises another issue, the belief that saints (dead people) can be used as mediators between man and God - but that's another point and another topic altogether.

.

I don't want to blow up the thread BUT

Regarding "the dead"

Mark 12:26-27

26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him, ' I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?

27 He is not God of the dead, but of the living; you are quite wrong."

[Guest shiloh357]

Judas, 

 

 I am explaining how the early church understood those words by Jesus. 

 

Prior to the RCC, the notion of a man seeking absolution of sin from another man was unheard of.  The notion of a father confessor on earth is a RCC myth and should be discarded. 

 

Jesus would NEVER have given anyone the power to absolve sin because no one on earth is sinless.   Jesus proved He had the power to absolve sin, and He did so as God.   God and God alone has that authority.  

 

Jesus is our High Priest and He makes intercession for us.   We already have Jesus and we go directly to Him for confession of sin.  

 

Since the Bible says we have only ONE mediator between God and man,  it means that any doctrine that claims that a man has been given divine authority arbitrarily absolve sin is a false doctrine and should be rejected by true followers of Jesus.

 

and no I did not say baptism forgives sins.   What I am saying is that the early Church understood Jesus' words to mean that they had the power to declare a person's sins forgiven by God upon their repentance and acceptance of the Gospel.    Baptism doesn't forgive sins.  Rather, the obedient person proves the sincerity of their profession of faith by being obedient to Lord to be baptized.    They did not have the power to do the actual absolution, but they had the authority granted and vested in them to say, "God has forgiven you."

[OakWood]

 

 

 

John 20:21-23 is not conferring the arbitrary authority on clergy to absolve of sin. The ancient church understood this passage to be in the context of preaching the Gospel and baptism. They understood that when a person preaches the Gospel and the hearers repent of their sin, the preacher has the authority to declare their sins forgiven. He is not the one doing the forgiving. He simply has the authority to say that God has forgiven them of their sins.

Their is NO place in the NT where preachers or priests have been given the divine authority in themselves to absolve us for our sins. The ONLY person we are told to go to for absolution is God. (I John 1:9)

I agree as shiloh has pointed out.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I would just also add,

1Ti 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

This verse:- For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; raises another issue, the belief that saints (dead people) can be used as mediators between man and God - but that's another point and another topic altogether.

.

I don't want to blow up the thread BUT

Regarding "the dead"

Mark 12:26-27

26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him, ' I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?

27 He is not God of the dead, but of the living; you are quite wrong."

 

 

I don't understand what you are getting at here. Are you defending the position of intercession by saints or criticising it?