ricky Posted April 12, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 508 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 216 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/09/1985 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) I was reading the last chapter of John's Gospel and the famous conversation Christ had with Peter where Christ asked "do you love me?" three times, the Greek word for love there is "agape" which is a unconditional love, Peter's first answer in English reads "I love you" but the Greek word used there is different, it is "Phileo" a brotherly love, the love of a good friend, a buddy. That is all well and good but Peter's Phileo love failed him in the Courtyard where he denied Christ three times a few short days earlier. Today, in my opinion, it seems many Christians love God, but it's not agape love, it is not awe for God's holiness, it is not a committed self sacrificing love. I submit that for many Christians the love they have for God is "Phileo". Yes we can have that kind of love for Jesus, however the "agape" must come first. Many Christians just see God as their buddy, a friend they turn to in times of need, with no really though of sacrifice or obedience. I struggle with this myself, as I don't want my relationship with God to be causal and self centered. I have treated God as my buddy for too long without acknowledging His holiness and even his presence except when it is convenient to me. For this I am thankful for His Grace. Any thoughts? Edited April 12, 2015 by saved_ricky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted April 12, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Can you explain how you have concluded that agape love is unconditional please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I was reading the last chapter of John's Gospel and the famous conversation Christ had with Peter where Christ asked "do you love me?" three times, the Greek word for love there is "agape" which is a unconditional love, Peter's first answer in English reads "I love you" but the Greek word used there is different, it is "Phileo" a brotherly love, the love of a good friend, a buddy. That is all well and good but Peter's Phileo love failed him in the Courtyard where he denied Christ three times a few short days earlier. Today, in my opinion, it seems many Christians love God, but it's not agape love, it is not awe for God's holiness, it is not a committed self sacrificing love. I submit that for many Christians the love they have for God is "Phileo". Yes we can have that kind of love for Jesus, however the "agape" must come first. Many Christians just see God as their buddy, a friend they turn to in times of need, with no really though of sacrifice or obedience. I struggle with this myself, as I don't want my relationship with God to be causal and self centered. I have treated God as my buddy for too long without acknowledging His holiness and even his presence except when it is convenient to me. For this I am thankful for His Grace. Any thoughts? Jesus Is The Root Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. John 15:3-4 That Produces The Fruit But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:22-26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted April 12, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 508 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 216 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/09/1985 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 Can you explain how you have concluded that agape love is unconditional please? Self sacrificing may have been a better term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alien224 Posted April 12, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,762 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 869 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/09/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1964 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Ricky you are correct and many of us struggle with this. We should be mindful how we speak and act towards others as this is a reflection of our relationship whith Christ. I also struggle with this at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cog Posted April 13, 2015 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 143 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) I think agape is charity. As in, I give myself to you so you can conceive my spirit. I give my word(s)/body/image to you, and by conceiving/perceiving the spirit therein, you have awareness - you conceive awareness - you have conception [of my spirit]. Think of it like your words are the body of your awareness of your spirit, and those three are one. e.g. When you said, "I struggle with this myself", you perceived / conceived the spirit of "struggle" in relation to the image of you and loving God, and you imaged it byway of breathing your spirit into your words/body of text - you did it to have us conceive your awareness - you were trying to reproduce, in us, all three things: your image, your awareness, your spirit - so we conceive what you conceive(good images of the spirit), because your conception of the spirit is "good"; and what is "good", we love... That is, we love a good image... we are all trying to reproduce "good" images - conceive good images - our love. e.g. You were trying to get us to produce good fruit because the spirit loves conception of good fruit. And within your good fruit was the seed (what you seen) of your spirit and the spirit itself (that energy or will or spirit of your breathe). Or to put it another way, agape is the reproduction of "good" in others. And we are all willing to serve someone better, or more good, than ourselves - we are willing to give ourselves to God, for example, because we think God, or someone better than ourselves, will, in-turn, reproduce good in us. But we should be willing to give ourselves to those less fortunate than ourselves, we should be willing to reproduce good in all - not just those who will give us rewards. That is true agape, not just giving yourself for the betterment of God, or someone better than you, but to all life. Agape does not see another's wealth - it is the love for everyone. Give up the body to reproduce spiritual awareness (good [spiritual] images same thing) all three are one. Just some thoughts. Oh and how I mostly feel for God would more accurately be described as marveling after him - the worshiping him. He is amazing. (But I don't think that kind of love is agape.) Oh and the reason I put good in quotes is because everyone tries to image good but "good" must be just or truth to be good. That is, even Satan does what Satan thinks is "good" but it is unjust, and so it is not good. That is all. Edited April 13, 2015 by Cog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clark thompson Posted April 13, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 154 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/13/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/12/1986 Share Posted April 13, 2015 We are to love God more than anything else and anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted April 13, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,250 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,662 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2015 The longer I am a Christian, and the more fully I comprehend the heights and depths of God's love, the more frail I recognize my love for Him is. Only Christ in me can love the Father perfectly. I can't even fully perceive God, He is so far above my understanding. The one thing I am sure of it that He hears me, knows me, and loves me anyhow. That compassion in itself is hard for me to grasp, that a holy God can stoop to rescue rotten, evil people from sin. So I have to agree with Peter. I phileo God is much as my human love can. In the end God gave Peter the grace to die for his faith. But that kind of love is a gift, and I can only hope that God will provide it when needed. Meanwhile self needs to decrease that Christ may increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted April 13, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The longer I am a Christian, and the more fully I comprehend the heights and depths of God's love, the more frail I recognize my love for Him is. Only Christ in me can love the Father perfectly. I can't even fully perceive God, He is so far above my understanding. The one thing I am sure of it that He hears me, knows me, and loves me anyhow. That compassion in itself is hard for me to grasp, that a holy God can stoop to rescue rotten, evil people from sin. So I have to agree with Peter. I phileo God is much as my human love can. In the end God gave Peter the grace to die for his faith. But that kind of love is a gift, and I can only hope that God will provide it when needed. Meanwhile self needs to decrease that Christ may increase. The longer I am a Christian, and the more fully I comprehend the heights and depths of God's love, the more frail I recognize my love for Him is. I agree 100% with this. We keep talking about how much we love Jesus, but often we cannot understand how, or why Jesus loves us. We can repeat by rote why He loves us, but do we really understand the depth of that love? Some of the best teachers and pastors I know understand that they are loved, truly loved, and it sets them free. A simple example is that of a child crossing a busy road. If the child holds on to their fathers hand, they do not have the strength to hold on when the traffic is screaming around them, their hand is sweating and they lose their grip. So it is with many Christians who profess to love Jesus and hang on to His hand with all the strength they have. When trial comes they let go. Rather understand that your Father loves you. Surrender your trust to His love. Just raise your hand on the side of the road and let Him take your hand in His. He won't let go. But we are often scared to surrender, and so we grip with all our strength, declare our love, but let go when our strength fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprprb Posted April 15, 2015 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 98 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/08/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 15, 2015 Sometimes I am so overcome with love and respect for the Lord that I can do nothing else and certainly don't want to feel anything else. But I stepped back from that moment today and realized the minutia of me next to the awesomeness of God. The only absolute damnation I can imagine is God doing nothing at all, to have this feeling go completely and utterly unanswered.. Even at the extreme edges, the razor sharp line dividing line of salvation, I find Him to be unfeathered and full and unerringly true as anywhere else. The nature of His presence is the same no matter where I find myself. So I wasn't necessarily boo-hooing I was grasping for the means having only a bucket where a fountain is called for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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