Saved? "If"

[jmwhalen]

IFS

Heb 3:14

14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

James 1:5

5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

James 2:17

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

1 Pet 4:18

18 Now "If the righteous one is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

I Jn 1:8

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I Jn 1:9

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I Jn 1:10

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

I Jn 2:15

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

II Jn 1:10

10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;

Rev 22:18-19

18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;

19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I Jn 2:4

4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Rom 8:17

17 and if children, then heirs-- heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

Eph 4:21

21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:

John 15:10

10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

John 15:14

14 "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.

(NKJ)

I Jn 1:7

7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Col 1:23

23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Matt 6:14-15

14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

15 "But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Rom 6:5

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,

1 Cor 15:1-2

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,

2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you-- unless you believed in vain.

Matt 5:29-30

29 "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

30 "And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

(NKJ)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

----------------------------------------------

Failure to "rightly divide the word of truth"(2 Tim. 2:15), thus not distinguishing between letters written to the Hebrews during the Tribulation, and thus Israel under the law, Hebrews through Revelation, in which they will have to "endure to the end", and which "the gospel of the kingdom", not "the gospel of the grace of God", will be preached. All scripture is "for our learning"(Romans 15:4), but not for our obedience. You are reading the wrong mail.

You need to go to Romans through Philemon for DOCTRINE for and to the Body of Christ. You obviously do not understand the doctrine of JUSTIFICATION in this "dispensation of the grace of God"(Eph. 3:2). If you did, you would understand that justification is a legal term declaring believers as righteous-it is irreversible(as is our sealing by the Holy Spirit, and our adoption as sons)! It is telling by your post that you did not once even discuss Romans, specifically Romans Ch 1-4, the book that explains the univeral guilt of all of mankind, and the basis of our acceptance by a holy God, and also the basis of our walk, in the context of justification. Your sole reference, Romans 8:17, has nothing to do with salvation-it has to do with rewards/reigning for those who are sons of God already-only sons can be heirs!

Your quoting Col. 1:23 and Eph. 4:21. This has nothing to do with JUSTIFICATION-the subject is SANCTIFICATION=our "walk".

Rom 6:5

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,

Paul says we have been united="done deal". You miss the point. He is telling us the surety of our resurrection because we are united-this is what "we are(emphasis mine) buried with him by baptism into death"(Rom. 6:4) means! No water here! Baptism means identification/union. When the Lord Jesus Christ died, the LORD God identified me in His death-I died at Calvary-dead to the law and dead to sin. . When He rose from the dead, He identified me in His resurrection-I rose with him:"Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead" Col 2:12

Re. "if you hold fast that word which I preached to you-- unless you believed in vain

[jmwhalen]

I had to add this verse that I just found while reading the bible.

2Ti 2:12  If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

That kind of blows away the theory once saved always saved don't you think? If a person denys the Lord it's obvious according to that verse you can loose salvation of your own choice. It's up to you to decide.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

_____________

No, it is not obvious. The subject is denial of rewards/reign, NOT SALVATION. You also conventiently leave out "If we believe not, yet he abideth faifthful: he cannot deny himself"(verse 13).

Rewards:"strive for masteries, yet he is not crowned" verse 5

Rewards "partaker of the fruits" verse 6

"Blows the theory". Please read Romans over and over and over.

In Christ

John W

[Guest truebeliever7]

I had to add this verse that I just found while reading the bible.

2Ti 2:12

[Abigailwc]

We are saved by His Grace and only by His Grace. If one believe that we can become "unsaved" then it would mean that salvation is not by Grace alone, but by works. Does not make sense to me.

Also, when we are saved we are called Children of God. That is that God has adopted us as sons and daughters of God. He is our father and God Himself tells us He will never forsake us. Seems to me that it means that He will never disown us: once His children, always His children.

If i leave my family and move far and never come back to them, it does not mean that they are not my parents anymore. They will always be my parents by blood.

Just like God will always be my Father, by the Spirit.

God does not come back on His promises, He does not call me His daughter one day, and then tells me another day that He never knew me. No, He has adopted me when I received Him in my heart, and He has promised me never to abandon me, but to fulfill His promises in me.

Therefore: Once saved, Always saved!

Blessings to all.

[jmwhalen]

I had to add this verse that I just found while reading the bible.

2Ti 2:12

[Guest wilburnh]

I believe that there are several places throughout romans that deals with conditional security. Off the top of my head, romans 3:21-31 and romand 9:21-23

Both of these passages points out how righteousness by works is not attainable however righteousness pursued by faith is how the Gentiles were able to attain it. There is a difference between doing good things to try to earn salvation and allowing your faith to rule your actions. The latter is the key to righteousness.... letting the Holy Spirit have our lives. While these are not actions that we do to save ourselves, it is a relinquishing of power over ourselves, i.e. it is giving Christ our whole life. Just pay close attention to romans 3:31 and 9:23. One says that the law is not void but rather faith establishes the law (he just got finished bashing the laws because the Israelites were pursing them for righteousness, so not to confuse readers, he says that if you have faith, the laws will be followed) and in chapter nine he says that anything out of faith is sin. In James 1:14-16 it shows the progression from temptation to sin and ultimately death. If we have faith and live in faith we will not succumb to the temptation which leads to sin and death. It is all related. It is circular if you will.

There are other passages that I've read and believe pertain to conditional security, however these are the ones that I've been studying recently and so are on the top of my head. I look forward to seeing your comments.

Now for Hebrews 6 (Mainly to Arthur Durnam). I assume the context to be pertaining to Jews who were converted to Christianity and who were considering going back to the Jewish faith with their pursuit of righteousness by works. If this is not the context to you, please explain.

Calvin

[Scylth]

This appears to say that a Christian can "have it" and then "lose it". Is that, in fact, what it says? Let me rearrange the word order of this passage so that it will make more sense.

It appears that there is nothing that will constrain you if you are going to do that.

It appears that there is no constraint for those who hold that the letter, Hebrews, scripture written to saints, believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, instructions written to saints, is not to be used for doctinre, as Romans, or other letters are.

They are not constrained by scripture, because their Doctrine has become more important to them than even that.

Edited February 27, 2005 by Scylth