JohnD Posted June 2, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,836 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted June 2, 2015 The metaphoric use of light in scriptures referring to God IMHO is used to teach humanity about his spiritual existence everywhere. Similar metaphors are of the Holy Spirit as wind or breath. That we can sense things with some of our senses that we cannot with other senses we possess to depict a realm beyond all of our physical senses is the point being made. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted June 2, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,836 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted June 2, 2015 Until we started doing things and / or inventing devices that aid our senses to detect things that exist here but are beyond our ability to naturally detect them... who would have thought white light could have properties of colors that span the rainbow? Or of sounds like the low tones elephants make to communicate over vast distances? Even with devices, man will not be able to detect the spirit realm other than the effects / footprints of its existence even in small amounts like intuition etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonky Posted June 3, 2015 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 738 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 346 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 3, 2015 What you should ask yourself is, prior to having these instruments would it have been reasonable for someone to doubt that elephants can talk to each other a mile away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bible2 Posted June 4, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 642 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 405 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2015 JohnD said in post 22: Even with devices, man will not be able to detect the spirit realm other than the effects / footprints of its existence even in small amounts like intuition etc. Actually, the Large Hadron Collider could have already detected the spirit realm without scientists yet realizing it, or being able to accept it. For what science is missing, in its search for a "Theory of Everything" which can unify all the physical forces in the universe, is spirit, so that by continuing to exclude the whole idea of spirit, science can never hope to understand the universe at its most fundamental level or what its ultimate origin was: "As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit . . . even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all" (Ecclesiastes 11:5). The relationship between the spiritual and the physical may be analogous to the relationship between energy and matter. Just as the relationship of energy to matter is summarized by the equation e=mc^2, meaning that immense amounts of energy are congealed and compacted, as it were, in order to form each tiny particle of matter, so the relationship between spirit and energy could theoretically be summarized by the equation s=ec^3, meaning that immense amounts of spirit may be congealed and compacted, as it were, in order to form each tiny photon of energy. All energy being based on spirit would make sense, for God is a Spirit (John 4:24), and in him everything consists (Colossians 1:17, Acts 17:28). When science's equations regarding such things as the Big Bang singularity, black holes, and quantum entanglement require the inclusion of infinities, these infinities shouldn't be seen as "failures", but as pointers to something which goes beyond the boundaries of the physical, i.e. spirit. If science ever becomes able to describe spirit mathematically using proportional numbers rather than infinities, this could lead to new technologies (e.g. spiritual power plants, spiritual bombs), just as when science became able to describe atomic nuclei mathematically, this led to new technologies (e.g. nuclear power plants, nuclear bombs). Just as energy consists of both particles (photons) and waves (electromagnetic waves) at the same time, so the basis for all energy, spirit, could consist of both particles (spiritons) and waves at the same time. If spirit is equivalent to consciousness, and consciousness consists of logic, emotion, and memory, then spiritual waves could consist of 3 different sine waves (logic waves, emotion waves, and memory waves) which could be interlocked at 60-degree angles, just as electromagnetism consists of two different sine waves (electric waves and magnetic waves) interlocked at a 90-degree angle. But by our current, strictly-physical-based mathematics, a spiritual wave or spiriton would show up in a calculation as an infinity, and so it could be mistakenly rejected by our current science as a "failure". It is possible that by creating a mathematics which involves 5 dimensions of space-time, the apparently infinite value of a spiritual wave or spiriton could be reduced to a proportional value. String Theory has shown that it is mathematically possible that space-time has more than 3 spatial dimensions. Because of observations such as Daniel 5:5, John 20:26b, and Luke 24:31b, the spiritual realm could be a 4th spatial dimension in which spiritual entities are able to move about without being seen by physical entities in our 3 spatial dimensions, because our physical eyes and light as we know it extend in only 3 dimensions. The spiritual dimension would be higher than our 3 dimensions in the same sense that a 3rd dimension is higher than 2 dimensions. And so from the spiritual realm, our physical realm would appear flat, just as from 3 dimensions, something in 2 dimensions appears flat. An entity with access to the spiritual dimension could do such things as enter only part of himself into the physical realm (Daniel 5:5), or suddenly appear in a locked room (John 20:26b), or suddenly disappear (Luke 24:31b). This ability would apply not only to spiritual beings (1 Corinthians 15:44, Luke 24:39), but also to any spiritual wave or particle. If spiritual particles exist, they could turn out to be "the God Particle" of science. While the Large Hadron Collider has reached a high-enough energy level so that a "God Particle" (i.e. a Higgs boson) has manifested itself, its observed qualities might ultimately be able to be described only by equations involving infinite values, so that its qualities and actions could ultimately be seen as "impossible" and "spooky", instead of science finally admitting to the existence of a substance which is spiritual. And spirit wouldn't have to be seen by scientists as some weird, foreign substance, but rather as the most fundamental substance of even their own selves (1 Thessalonians 5:23). And could spirit also be the "dark matter" and "dark energy" which together make up 96% of the universe, but which science can't yet observe directly or explain? The really sad and dangerous thing is that even if science does eventually determine that "the God Particle" is a spiritual particle, which science could come to call the "spiriton", some scientists could still refuse to believe in and submit themselves to YHWH God, saying that the existence of spirit doesn't require that there is one infinite, conscious spirit-being called YHWH God (John 4:24, Mark 12:30, Deuteronomy 6:5). And in its subsequent experiments with spirit, science could come into contact with the evil spirit-being called Lucifer (Satan), who could manifest himself in some future, ultra-high-energy experiment and claim that he is the true, beneficent God of mankind and must be worshipped instead of YHWH. In this way, a nascent spiritual science could be hijacked and employed by Lucifer and his current worshippers as one part of their future deception by which the world will eventually be deceived into consciously and openly worshipping Lucifer (the dragon) and his human son the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") as God (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), instead of YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). -- The unity of mankind which will occur at that future time could be like the unity of mankind which occurred at the time of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:6). And there could even be a future equivalent to the Tower of Babel, which could be built in the literal, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq). For Lucifer could show mankind how to build there a huge tower device, a spiritual machine the size of the Empire State Building which will be able to send into the sky an incredibly powerful spiritual beam analogous to a laser. Near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Lucifer could tell mankind that it will need to employ this huge weapon during an impending battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:14b, Revelation 19:19). Mixing some science fiction with some ancient lies of Gnosticism, Lucifer could tell mankind something like: "YHWH will soon come down to the earth in his gigantic spaceship which is shaped like a Borg Cube [cf. Revelation 21:16]. He is coming to enslave you and turn you all into Borg-like automatons. But this mighty Tower Device will be able to blow his Borg Cube and him to bits with its spiritual ray. Then we can focus the Tower Device on any point of empty space until it burns in space-time a hole, a portal through which I will lead your spirits out of this vile material universe which YHWH made to be our prison. And I will lead you back up into the purely-spiritual realm of the Pleroma [i.e. Heaven], where you can live as gods in bliss, doing what you please, forever, just as you had done with me for all ages past, before we by mistake fell into YHWH's trap of this material universe". Before Jesus' 2nd coming, Lucifer could prove the power of the Tower Device to mankind by letting the Antichrist and his False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) use it to blow up some large asteroids and even some moons of other planets, so that mankind will go into its battle against YHWH in full confidence that it will be able to destroy him. But when the battle comes, the device won't work against YHWH (cf. Psalms 21:11, KJV). Instead, Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will descend from heaven and take total victory in the battle (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6). JohnD said in post 22: Even with devices, man will not be able to detect the spirit realm other than the effects / footprints of its existence even in small amounts like intuition etc. It has been claimed that magnetic fields applied to certain areas of the brain can cause a subject who is alone in a room to sense other human-shaped entities in the room. Materialists could explain this as a magnetically-induced spatial displacement of the subject's mental image of his own body. This might be correct. Or in some cases it could involve a magnetically-induced enhancement of the subject's brain so that he can sense spiritual entities, whether a spatially displaced sense of his own spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23), or a spatially correct sense of an external spiritual entity such as a guardian angel (cf. Acts 12:15b), a fallen angel (Ephesians 6:12), a demon (Mark 5:8), or a ghost (Luke 24:37). It is possible that sometime in the future, scientists could magnetically induce something like believers' experience of the Holy Spirit, if by employing functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), scientists are able to find the part of believers' brains which is most active when they are sensing the Holy Spirit (e.g. while they are listening to worship music and worshipping God), and which shows little to no activity when they aren't sensing the Holy Spirit (e.g. while they are listening to a sports talk show). If there is such a part of the brain, scientists could then apply magnetic fields to it while Christian subjects aren't sensing the Holy Spirit, and see if it induces something like a sense of the Holy Spirit in them without any other external stimuli. If scientists manage to do this, it could be employed by the coming Antichrist to try to deceive believers, along with the rest of the world, into worshipping Lucifer (Satan, the dragon), and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), and a speaking image of the Antichrist, during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). For what the Antichrist and his False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) could do is have scientists fashion small (what they could call) "spiritual reality" devices, like the size of a Bluetooth earpiece, that could be easily worn on the head at all times, and that could generate magnetic fields right over the part of the brain which gives people a similar sense of spiritual assurance of truth which the Holy Spirit gives to believers (John 16:13). And these devices could be remotely activated on people's heads by cell phone signals whenever the Antichrist or the False Prophet is speaking to the world their false doctrines, so that the people of the world will get an overwhelming sense that what the Antichrist and False Prophet are saying is the absolute truth. Or, if most of the world will have no need of such devices because of the False Prophet's deceiving miracles (Revelation 13:13-14a, Revelation 19:20) and the "strong delusion" sent by God (2 Thessalonians 2:11), the use of the devices could be focused on believers, and any other people, who refuse to follow the Antichrist. Such believers could be arrested and placed in "reform camps" where they will be strapped into chairs and forced to watch long speeches by the Antichrist and the False Prophet while the devices are active on the believers' heads, with the hope that eventually the believers will come to accept the Antichrist, based on the "good spiritual feelings" which they will get (from the devices) while listening to the speeches. It is vital that believers never base any of their doctrinal beliefs only on spiritual feelings (cf. Proverbs 28:26, Proverbs 14:12). All doctrines must be checked against what God's Word the Bible teaches (2 Timothy 3:16 to 4:4; 1 Timothy 4:16). For "the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1 Timothy 4:1). Jesus said: "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed" (John 8:31b). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprprb Posted June 11, 2015 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 98 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/08/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2015 Bible2, slow down please...you have a lot of good ideas about things in your post, but I cant process all that at once! But..please don't call it the God particle..what if we observe it, manipulate it, is that respectful? And that is not what the Higgs boson is, why think it is different than the up quark or give it some undeserved halo? They are all God's particles, please. Since you are very able to see these things coming ahead of time you will be well prepared to figure out what's wrong with the situation when it does! My own pet notions and furious extrapolations lead me to the same kinds of theories at times, but What I have come into, passing by the same types of creative thinking, is that simplicity is the most effective and powerful tool. Being open minded is a wonderful gift to have and I understand prying at the lid of these issues with all of your creativity. Take a step back and then a deep breath and look at what you are trying to accomplish. And the reason I say is because my answer is just simple, and very humble. Pick one of those things and follow it , because they all lead to the same thing, but take a large sack of humility to it with you if an answer is what you seek. Most likely you are sensing too far ahead what your inclinations and perhaps The Spirit are trying to tell you, give them space to separate and become distinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted June 12, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2015 Until we started doing things and / or inventing devices that aid our senses to detect things that exist here but are beyond our ability to naturally detect them... who would have thought white light could have properties of colors that span the rainbow? Or of sounds like the low tones elephants make to communicate over vast distances? Even with devices, man will not be able to detect the spirit realm other than the effects / footprints of its existence even in small amounts like intuition etc. Weird, John D., that I have a tee shirt with the above logo. I never really noticed what it meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) God is called the Light which no man can approach. The light we see and measure is a creation, one that we can relate to, but the immortal God is Light which we cannot relate to, except by faith. Unlike any creation, this Light is not a property, but God Himself. It is only one of many illustrations God has allowed Himself to be compared to for our sake. There is light everywhere in the place you are sitting. God cannot be confined by His creation. How much could we get done without light? The Light which God is, is stronger than all of creation/ the universe. All the substance of the universe by comparison to God is like a dream, or a hologram. The Bible says the heavens or visible universe is like a curtain stretched out by God. The light that was spoken into existence, in the beginning, was also invisible to us, and from this light, God created matter, which includes the formation of the natural light we see. Spiritual Light from God, is no different than natural light, it all comes from the same Source, and it is whittled down so that we may comprehend it. For instance, God became a man, an infinitely small item compared to His existence, and so that His Light is dim enough for us to see and appreciate without being killed before we could even think about it. And yet, the intention of this Gift in Christ, is so that one day we may stand before, and look at, the Light which no man can approach. Edited December 19, 2015 by Kan delete spaces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprprb Posted June 16, 2015 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 98 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/08/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2015 Kan, I was troubled but that put me right at peace brother! He is that awesome! thanks for the reminder in a weak moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted June 18, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2015 Kan, I was troubled but that put me right at peace brother! He is that awesome! thanks for the reminder in a weak moment. God's strength and power is perfected through weakness. You must be blessed to be able to feel weak moments, because it is in those moments that we have the most compassion for others and the most room for Christ. I Corinthians 1:25-30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1to3 Posted June 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 141 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,244 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 3,083 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2015 As christian children of God we are called to be shining lights in the world. when we ask the Holy spirit of God into our hearts,to come and make a home in our hearts, we have welcomed the light of God into our hearts. Our presence should give off His light to others. Some can't stand the light of God and some may even draw back away from you because of the light of God in you. Demon possessed people can't stand the presence of Gods light. I heard the testimonial once of a pastor who before becoming a christian went to Hollywood as a young man looking to try and make it as an actor, but his plans changed when he became a born again chrisitan. As a new born again christian, he mentioned walking around California and there was a clairvoyant standing near her place of business, that when she saw him, she began talking loud and covering her hands over her face, telling him to get away from her. God is most definitely defined as light as He is also defined as rushing waters. His presence is Light and His countenance never dries up of energy. Something I have heard ???: When you close your eyes and look at at the back of your eyelids, you should be able to see little speckles of light floating about the screen of your mind,the surface of your brain, I have heard it been said to be Gods own light shining through us. (?) It has been said, People who don't have any light of God in them, only see black when they close their eyes.(?) This changes once they repent and ask God to come and make a home in their hearts. Coming back to biblical facts: The sermon on the mount Matthew 5:14 Christ Jesus spoke 14"You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.… Once we turn to God,repent,ask the Holy spirit of God to come and make a home into our heart we have part of His light living in us, shinning through us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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