1John 3:9 What does it mean?

[Bible2]

His_disciple3 said in post 7:

 

there is no saved today lost tomorrow saved the next day lost again after that . . .

 

That's right, in that salvation can only be lost once, and at Jesus' 2nd coming.

 

Some saved people, at the judgment of the church by Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30), at his 2nd coming (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27), will lose their salvation because of such things as unrepentant sin (Luke 12:45-46, Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or apostasy (Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 6:4-8; 2 Timothy 2:12b). That is why saved people know the "terror" of the coming judgment of the church by Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:10-11), why they must remain in fear of being cut off the same as unbelievers if they don't continue in God's goodness (Romans 11:20-22, Luke 12:45-46), why they must be careful to work out their own ultimate salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12b; 1 Peter 1:17, Romans 2:6-8).

 

His_disciple3 said in post 7:

 

Jesus said that He would leave the secure sheep and find the wandering sheep.

 

Matthew 18:12-14 gives believers the assurance that Jesus Christ their good shepherd (John 10:14) will come to seek them out if they wander away, such as into false teachings or sins (James 5:19-20). But it is still possible for them to ultimately lose their salvation if after they go astray and Jesus comes after them, they wrongly employ their free will to reject his advances, and commit apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b), or commit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29, Luke 12:45-46; 1 Corinthians 9:27), or become utterly lazy without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8).

 

His_disciple3 said in post 7:

 

those that He did cast out He said I never knew you . . .

 

Matthew 7:21-23 shows that both faith and obedience to God are required for believers to enter ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 5:9, James 2:24). But there is no assurance they will choose to obey (Matthew 25:26,30, Luke 12:45-46).

 

Matthew 7:23a could be hyperbole (like Matthew 23:24b is hyperbole). For Matthew 7:22 could refer to truly saved people, true believers in the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31), who had truly repented from their sins (1 John 3:6) and had truly performed many wonderful works for Jesus to the end (John 15:4-5). But at some point subsequent to their initial repentance, they had fallen back into some unrepentant sin (Matthew 7:23b; 2 Peter 2:20-22), so that they had to be completely rejected by Jesus in the end despite their continued faith and good works (1 Corinthians 9:27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Hebrews 10:26-29).

 

Regarding the ability to cast out demons (Matthew 7:22), that is one of the signs that people are saved, that they are believers in the gospel (Mark 16:17). People must be very careful not to fall into the unforgivable presumption of Mark 3:22-30.

 

His_disciple3 said in post 7:

 

Praise the Lord for being my AUTHOR and FINISHER of my faith . . .

 

Amen.

 

Hebrews 12:2a means it is only because of Jesus that saved people came to believe, and have the ability to continue to believe to the end (Colossians 1:23, Hebrews 3:6,14). But Jesus doesn't take away the free will of saved people. So it is possible for them to wrongly employ their free will to depart from the faith, to no longer believe, to commit apostasy (Luke 8:13; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:3), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b).

 

His_disciple3 said in post 7:

 

Thank you Father for providing my Redeemer and Knowing That I would never be able to redeem myself.

 

Amen.

 

Also, NOSAS doesn't make people their own savior, for only Jesus can save people (John 14:6, John 3:36) by his sacrifice (Romans 3:25), and the ability he gives saved people to continue in the faith (Hebrews 12:2), to continue to do good works (John 15:5), to continue to repent from any sin they commit (John 8:34-36), and to overcome to the end (Revelation 12:11), by their own choice. All NOSAS does is admit that there is no assurance every saved person will choose to continue to do all these things to the end.

 

His_disciple3 said in post 7:

 

I will stand before You one day Humbled and grateful for  all the things you did for me through your love, salvation. but never will I be able to stand before you and demand that you must let me in, for the things I did for you.

 

Amen.

 

For it is impossible to believe or continue to believe all the right things apart from God's miraculous gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65, Hebrews 12:2) and some measure of his Spirit (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Also, it is impossible to perform or continue to perform all the right actions as believers apart from God making it possible for believers to do that (Philippians 2:12-13, John 15:4-5). And it is impossible to repent, if a sin is committed, apart from God making it possible to repent (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18, Romans 8:13). So even if believers continue to believe, act, and repent as they ought to, they must stay so humble that they never give themselves any credit or glory (Luke 17:10, Galatians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 1:29,31). But when Jesus judges the church at his 2nd coming, he will give obedient believers some credit (Matthew 25:21). Also, God does glorify saved people (e.g. Romans 8:30).

 

Also, while God makes it possible for saved people to do the right thing (Philippians 2:13, John 15:4-5), he doesn't take away their free will, turning them into robots, or into macabre flesh puppets, mere marionettes whom he forces to dance across the stage as he pulls on their strings. Instead, he leaves them as his real children with free will. And so they have to choose each and every day to deny themselves, to take up their crosses, and to follow Jesus to the end (Luke 9:23, Matthew 24:13). And there is no assurance they will choose to do that (Matthew 25:26,30, Luke 12:45-46, Luke 8:13).

[Bible2]

bcbsr said in post 8:

 

Concerning the idea that one must have faith and works in order to be saved . . .

 

The issue in James 2:14-24 is how believers are to be saved (James 2:14b), how they are to be justified before God (James 2:23-24), just as the issue in Romans 4:1-5 is how believers are to be saved, how they are to be justified before God (cf. Romans 5:9, Romans 1:16). That is why both James 2:23-24 and Romans 4:1-5 employ the same Old Testament verse (Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:3, James 2:23). Romans 4:1-5 refers to initial salvation/justification before God, which is based on faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5), while James 2:23-24 refers to ultimate salvation/justification before God, which is based on both faith and works (Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 7:21, Philippians 2:12b; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9; 2 Peter 1:10-11, Hebrews 6:10-12, Philippians 3:11-14; 1 John 2:17b), as in works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law).

 

For faith is like a body and works of faith are like the breathing (spirit) of that body (James 2:26). Faith without works of faith will die just as a body without breathing will die (James 2:26). That is why our ultimate salvation will depend on both our faith and our continued works of faith (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21). If a believer refuses to continue to perform works of faith, without repentance, he will ultimately lose his salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a), just as if someone stops himself from breathing by hanging himself, he will die.

 

The breathing analogy (James 2:26) doesn't include the automatic aspect of breathing. For believers must be careful to maintain good works (Titus 3:8). The analogies in the Bible don't include every aspect of the analogous thing. For example, believers, born-again people, being like newborn babies (1 Peter 2:2) doesn't mean believers have no ability to talk, walk, or control their bowels.

 

bcbsr said in post 8:

 

But much of the Christian community is much like the sect of the Circumcision Paul opposed, or shall we call them the sect of the Baptism, in which salvation is contingent upon one's involvement in religious rituals and upon one's compliance to rules and regulations.

 

Some people feel baptism can't be required for salvation, because baptism is a work, and salvation isn't based on works, but on faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). But baptism is a kind of circumcision (Colossians 2:11-13, Philippians 3:3, Romans 2:29). Just as Abraham, who is a model for Christians, was initially saved by faith alone, prior to his circumcision (Romans 4), so Christians are initially saved by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:2-5), prior to their baptism (Acts 8:36-38, John 20:31). But just as Abraham was ultimately saved by his works (James 2:21-24), so Christians will be ultimately saved by their works (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b), which must include getting water-immersion (burial) baptized (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16).

 

That is, in order to be saved ultimately, believers must get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus' death for our sins (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16). If people believe with all their heart that Jesus Christ is the human/divine Son of God (Acts 8:37), they can get baptized anywhere there is water (Acts 8:36) into which they can be fully-immersed (buried) (Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12). They need to make sure to be baptized in the name of God the Father; and of the Son, Jesus Christ; and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38). Believers can get water-immersion baptized at, for example, a Baptist-type congregation.

 

Besides getting water baptized, believers can get Holy Spirit baptized (Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46). They usually have to ask to receive the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13b) baptism, for it is usually not given to them automatically at the moment they become believers. That is why Paul the apostle asked some believers: "Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed?" (Acts 19:2).

 

Believers usually receive Holy Spirit baptism through prayer accompanied by the laying on of hands, subsequent to water baptism (Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:5-6). Holy Spirit baptism won't result in speaking in tongues for everyone (1 Corinthians 12:30), but for almost everyone, as tongues are one of the Spirit's lesser gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8,9,10,11,28; 1 Corinthians 14:5). Many believers haven't yet experienced Holy Spirit baptism simply because they haven't yet asked for it, under the principle of "ye have not, because ye ask not" (James 4:2b). Many believers haven't yet asked for it because they have come under the influence of mistaken teachings which say it is no longer in effect. Believers can get hands laid on them to receive Holy Spirit baptism at any Pentecostal-type congregation, or at any charismatic-type congregation, which can be of almost any denomination.

 

bcbsr said in post 8:

 

But Jesus said, "he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." John 5:24

 

John 5:24 refers to salvation in the sense of believers' present, spiritual salvation, instead of the still-future redemption of their physical bodies (Romans 8:23-25). John 5:24 means a saved person won't ultimately come into condemnation, as in an ultimate loss of salvation, so long as he continues to the end to believe (Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Colossians 1:23, John 15:6), to perform good works (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, John 15:2a), and to repent from every sin he commits (Hebrews 10:26-29, Luke 12:45-46; 1 Corinthians 9:27). All saved people will be judged (2 Corinthians 5:10).

 

bcbsr said in post 8:

 

For logically such a soteriology indicates that a person is saved only so long as they don't sin.

 

Every believer in the gospel (of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31) can know he is presently saved (1 John 5:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), if when he became a believer in the gospel he repented from his sins (1 John 3:6) and confessed them to God (1 John 1:9). And he can be sure that as a saved person, he can never be separated from the love of God, so long as he loves God (Romans 8:28-39), which means to obey him (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24). And no matter how many tests a saved person fails during his lifetime, sometime subsequent to his initial repentance, even if he fails and commits sin 70 times 7 times in a single day (Matthew 18:21-22, Luke 17:4), he can be sure that so long as he sincerely repents from every act of sin and confesses it to God, he will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9). He will lose his salvation ultimately only if he wrongly employs his free will to do something like committing a sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46), or becoming utterly lazy without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

 

bcbsr said in post 8:

 

Many of the verses misread by the anti-OSAS sects, which indicate a correlation between one's behavior and one's salvation status are not speaking of salvation being contingent upon one's works, but rather the converse, that one's behavior is conditioned upon one's salvation status, as I noted  concerning 1John 3:9.

 

1 John 3:9, like 1 John 3:6 and 3 John 1:11b, means the initial salvation of people will be accompanied by them repenting from their sins and not continuing in them, at least for a while. What 1 John 3:6, 1 John 3:9, and 3 John 1:11b don't mean is initially saved people lose their free will and become robots, unable to ever choose, sometime subsequent to their initial salvation and repentance, to commit a sin without ever repenting from it. For other verses show it is possible for initially saved people to do that, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46).

 

bcbsr said in post 8:

 

"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud." 2Peter 2:20-22 A dog and a pig can only pose as sheep for so long. He who endures to the end will be saved because time itself will weed out the posers.

 

2 Peter 2:20-22 refers to those who had truly been saved, for they had truly escaped the pollutions of the world (2 Peter 2:20, cf. 2 Peter 1:4b). They had truly been washed (2 Peter 2:22b, cf. 1 Corinthians 6:11, Hebrews 10:22) through knowing Jesus (2 Peter 2:20, cf. 2 Peter 1:3b, John 17:3,17). But they nonetheless at some subsequent point wrongly employed their free will to return back to sinning without repentance, so that their ultimate fate will be worse than if they had never been saved at all (2 Peter 2:20b-21, cf. Hebrews 10:26-29).

 

bcbsr said in post 8:

 

He who endures to the end will be saved because time itself will weed out the posers.

 

Calvinism's mistaken doctrine of once-saved-always-saved through assured perseverance unwittingly ends up logically requiring that saved people are robots. For if saved people can't choose to do evil to the point where they can ultimately lose their salvation, then they no longer have free will. Also, the mistaken doctrine of assured perseverance unwittingly ends up logically requiring that a Christian can have no present assurance he is truly saved. For if a Christian who doesn't persevere to the end was never truly saved, then no Christian can presently have the assurance he is truly saved. For no Christian can know if he will persevere to the end. Down the road, he could fail to persevere, and so end up showing that he was all along only a fake Christian, a self-deceived hypocrite.

 

bcbsr said in post 8:

 

Note for example 1John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." Note the principle "if they had been of us" (ONCE SAVED), "they would have remained with us" (ALWAYS SAVED).

 

1 John 2:19 doesn't require apostate believers were never real believers, but can mean apostate believers were never of the overcomers to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). Real believers who have their names written in the book of life can have their names blotted out if they fail to overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). People can really believe only for awhile, before at some point wrongly employing their free will to depart from the faith, to no longer believe, to commit apostasy (Luke 8:13; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:3), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b).

 

1 John 2:18-19 can refer to Christians who eventually became Gnostic-type Christians (cf. 2 John 1:7; 1 John 4:3), and so left the church because of its continued (and correct) insistence Christ is in the flesh (Luke 24:39).

[His_disciple3]

Bible2 : salvation is eternal life there is no one that is saved, that will not be saved, I thes. 4 says: I would not have you to be ignorant concerning those that are asleep in Christ, they are dead, they haven't made it to the judgement yet but yet they are referred to as those that are in Christ, your understanding of salvation is contradicting what Jesus said I WILL IN NO WISE CAST YOU OUT and I WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU. our works are tried by fire, the good work brought forth for a reward the bad works are burnt up as for loss, But the Man Himself is saved, regardless of his works and how much are good and bad. the potter forms a vessel of honour and a vessel of dishonor, this is from the same lump of clay, the vessel of flesh for dishonor and the vessel of Spirit for Honour. it is the same lump the same vessel, the same person, flesh is sin, but God puts His incorruptible seed in His children, incorruptible, Jesus paid all my sin debt, He paid my debt just to see me burn in hell later, Come on. He brought me into His fold, just to stand back and watch me walk into the arms of satan again. come on. really that's what you think Jesus did on the cross, He just died for the righteous, the strong ones that could over come the world. well see scripture says those that over come are those that believe in Jesus. by faith we overcome, by grace through faith we obtain salvation. are we really to believe that the works Jesus did for us aren't good enough and there is something left undone that we must do?

1 John 5:5

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

KJV

[Bible2]

His_disciple3 said in post 13:

 

our works are tried by fire, the good work brought forth for a reward the bad works are burnt up as for loss, But the Man Himself is saved, regardless of his works and how much are good and bad.

 

1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to only the loss of reward for the work of spiritually building up a church congregation (1 Corinthians 3:8-17), if that work is done in a faulty manner, by focusing on the merely-temporal "wood, hay, stubble" (1 Corinthians 3:12) of human, worldly wisdom (1 Corinthians 3:18-20), and the glorying in human leaders of the church (1 Corinthians 3:4,21), instead of focusing on Jesus and the everlasting wisdom of his Word (1 Corinthians 2:2 to 3:23; 1 Peter 1:23-25). 1 Corinthians 3:15 isn't contradicting that if a saved person, whether a church builder or not, wrongly employs his free will to stop doing any good works, to become utterly lazy without repentance, he will in the end lose his salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a,6). He will obtain ultimate salvation only if he patiently continues in good works and obedience to the end (Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 5:9, James 2:24).

 

His_disciple3 said in post 13:

 

well see scripture says those that over come are those that believe in Jesus.

 

Any saved person can ultimately have his name blotted out of the book of life (Revelation 3:5), he can ultimately lose his salvation and be cast into the 2nd death of the lake of fire (Revelation 2:11, Revelation 20:14-15), if he doesn't overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:11, Revelation 2:26, Hebrews 6:11-12, Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Matthew 24:9-13).

 

Revelation 3:5, 1 John 5:4-5, 1 John 2:13-14 and 1 John 4:4 don't contradict this, for these verses don't give any assurance that every saved person will overcome to the end. All that the 1 John verses give assurance of is that believers can presently be overcomers. And all that Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:11, and Revelation 2:26 give assurance of is that those believers who do overcome to the end won't have their names blotted out of the book of life and won't be cast into the lake of fire.

 

An example of saved people "overcoming" (Greek: nikao, G3528) (Revelation 3:5) or "getting the victory" (nikao) (Revelation 15:2) to the end is found in Revelation 15:2, which refers to saved people who will be willing to be killed by the future Antichrist instead of worshipping him to save their lives during the future worldwide persecution against Biblical Christians (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

 

Christians will be able to spiritually overcome the Antichrist and Satan by not loving their lives to the death (Revelation 12:11). But it is also possible for Christians to fail to overcome, and so in the end to lose their salvation (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:11), if they are fearful (Revelation 21:7-8) of being tortured or killed (Matthew 10:28, Revelation 2:10), to the point where they will wrongly employ their free will to renounce Jesus Christ and the gospel, to commit apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6), in order to keep from getting tortured and killed (Mark 8:35-38; 2 Timothy 2:12, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21, Luke 8:13).

[His_disciple3]

well this a subject that has been going on longer than you or I have been alive sadly to say, and it won't be solved here. we are saved by grace through faith. and not that of works, so I am not in contradiction of any scripture, whosoever believeth in Jesus, will not be condemned, but if we deny Jesus we are condemned already. I don't have to do anything to bust hell wide open, But not to bust it wide open I must Believe that God sent His son. By Faith I believe what Christ, the Son of God did for me is good enough for my salvation. He is my salvation, the Author and finisher, My redeemer. My Lord and My God. those in Christ can not sin, God has put His incorruptible Seed in me. If I have any part of obtaining or keeping me saved, by what I can do, then I become my salvation. you say we have to overcome and won't be able to know that we have until the end. But Christ, My Lord and My Saviour, says I can't do anything unless I am already His, attached to the true vine. those that are asleep in Christ (dead) ARE already JUDGED TO BE those in Christ!,. I believe Christ and His works are why I will get in, you believe Christ and your works are why you will get in, where is your Faith ? or who is your faith in? Christ alone, no other way to the Father but By Christ. or Christ and you ?? I trust Christ if that is contradicting  scriptures in your eyes and understanding ( lean not unto your own understanding) Then You who shouldn't judge, go ahead and judge. according to you a atheist who loves their family and I know atheist that love their family as well or more than some Christians do then they will be there and some Christians won't be there, but that is the wrong Gospel, my friend, it is through my faith in Christ not my works for Him.  

[Bible2]

His_disciple3 said in post 15:

 

we are saved by grace through faith. and not that of works . . .

 

Initial salvation is by grace through faith without any works at all on our part (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-5, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). But other passages show that initially saved people must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law) if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For believers must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance believers will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

 

His_disciple3 said in post 15:

 

. . . whosoever believeth in Jesus, will not be condemned, but if we deny Jesus we are condemned already

 

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already..." (John 3:18).

 

Regarding John 3:18, note that other, related verses show that believers ultimately retaining their salvation is conditional on their continued belief to the end (Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Hebrews 6:4-8, Colossians 1:23), their continued good works to the end (Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30), and their continued repentance to the end from every sin they commit (Hebrews 10:26-29, Luke 12:45-46; 1 Corinthians 9:27). And there is no assurance that every believer will do all these things to the end.

[His_disciple3]

Jesus fed the multitude for He didn't want them to faint before they got home. The Author and Finisher of our Faith. the Source of our salvation and our journey (our walk with Him) as Jude quoted we are presented to the One that can keep us from falling, what powers can separate us from the Love of God, God Chastises those He loves not Cast Out, I will in no wise cast out, Father I have Not lost one that you have given me except the son of perdition. He will leave the 99 and seek for the wandering lamb. While I was yet a sinner (meaning there is a time that we are not seen as sinners) it is the Blood of Christ that washes away sin, not sin that washes away the Blood of Christ .

Heb 9:22-26

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

KJV

Heb 9:11-12

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

KJV

My salvation is eternal redemption, Meaning I couldn't do it myself. I had to have a redeemer( a kinsman redeemer ) who paid my price for me, If I do anything after that I don't take the credit. I don't work for my salvation but work out my salvation I pray a lot of folks get a hold of that, to work out is not to work for! My salvation is a covenant(promised By and From God, believe and Have everlasting life. My salvation is base strictly on His grace and His promise, not on anything I do, All debts are released and all things are restored in the year of JUbilee. BY The One who knew I had no way Unless He stepped up for me, Thank you Lord My redeemer. my all my Lord and my God!

[Willa]

bcbsr said in post 1:

1Cor 6:9,10 it is not that salvation is contingent upon one's behavior, but rather that there simply doesn't exists any such person who lives a lifestyle of sin who has been born of God.

Hebrews 10:26-29 shows that truly saved people, people who have truly been sanctified by Jesus' sacrificial blood (Hebrews 10:29), which sanctification requires faith (Acts 26:18b, cf. Romans 3:25-26), can, after they get saved, wrongly employ their free will to commit sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26). By doing this, these saved people are unwittingly trampling on Jesus and his sacrificial blood, and doing despite to the Spirit of grace (Hebrews 10:29), turning the grace of God into lasciviousness (Jude 1:4), so that their ultimate fate will be worse than if they had never been saved at all (2 Peter 2:20-22). Even though Jesus' sacrificial blood is sufficient to forgive all sins (1 John 2:2), it actually forgives only the sins of believers which are past (Romans 3:25-26), as in sins which have been repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9,7). Jesus' sacrificial blood doesn't remit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29). So a saved person can in the end lose his salvation if he wrongly employs his free will to commit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46).

Some Christians think Hebrews 10:26-29 isn't for Christians. But the immediate context of Hebrews 10:26-29 is Hebrews 10:25, which is addressing "we" saved people. Hebrews 10:25-29 is the same idea as Hebrews 3:13: Saved people need to gather together and exhort each other so no saved person will fall into any unrepentant sin. For any unrepentant sin will ultimately result in the loss of salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46, Matthew 7:22-23, Galatians 5:19-21; 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13; 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20).

One way a saved person could come to desire to commit sin without repentance would be if he finds a particular sin to be very pleasurable, so pleasurable and so fulfilling (in the short term) that he continues in it over time until his heart becomes hardened by the deceitfulness of sin (Hebrews 3:13), to where his love for God grows cold because of the abundance of iniquity (Matthew 24:12), to where he quenches the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), to where he sears his conscience as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where he becomes so infatuated with his sin that he can no longer endure the sound doctrine of the Bible (such as the doctrine of Hebrews 10:26-29), but instead latches onto a mistaken, man-made teaching which contradicts the Bible (2 Timothy 4:3-4), such as the mistaken teaching which assures believers there is no way they can ever lose their salvation, even if they sin without repentance.

I agree that a person could be apostate. God will make every effort to turn the person around and bring him back to Himself. It is possible but not probable. From the Calvanists point of view he was never truly saved because he that endures to the end shall be saved. So if he didn't perservere he wasn't truly saved. Christ kept all who were given to him.

[Willa]

there is no saved today lost tomorrow saved the next day lost again after that, you are saved or you are lost,  the lost can get saved but the saved can't get lost . Bible2 said that Jesus would cast some out, Jesus said I will in NO wise cast ye out. I'm trusting Jesus for my salvation, and following His teaching, also Jesus, Said: I will never leave nor forsake you.  Now some will say that we can walk away from Jesus and forsake Him, well scriptures asks what powers can separate us from the Love of God, our walking away is not that power that will separate. Jesus said that He would leave the secure sheep and find the wandering sheep.   Jesus never said; I will never leave you, unless you leave me. those that He did cast out He said I never knew you, they weren't saved and cast out, He NEVER knew them. some mistake Chastisement for lost salvation. God Corrects/ chastises His Children, God doesn't turn His back or cast me out of the family when I sin, He chastises  those that He loves, not cast out. however we must live by ALL Scripture that is inspired of God , and it says that we are not to continue in sin, because we are under Grace, we are to yield our members unto righteousness, and not unrighteousness, we are to present our bodies a living sacrifice holy and acceptable before God. There is only one Sacrifice and that is everlasting not temporal as the bulls and goats. even at the worst state of the prodigal son, He said in my FATHER"S house are servants that are in a better state than I, He never lost the relationship, he still had a father, and the father never said if my wandering son will return, I will forgive But waiting on the porch knowing that His wayward son would return. I thank My God He did it all for me. and that He didn't leave it up to me. Praise the Lord for being my AUTHOR and FINISHER of my faith, Thank you Father for providing my Redeemer and Knowing That I would never be able to redeem myself. I will stand before You one day Humbled and grateful for  all the things you did for me through your love, salvation. but never will I be able to stand before you and demand that you must let me in, for the things I did for you. Thank You Father, thank you Jesus ( the Son) thank you Holy Spirit.

AMEN! No surrendered believer has to walk on eggs around our God and Savior. We walk in reverent fellowship as His children. He works in us both to will and to do for His good pleasure. He conforms us to the likeness of Christ. It is His work in us. We trust Him to complete the work He has begun in us. But to worry if we have confessed everything to God because we might lose our salvation? Ridiculous! We are told in 1 John 1:7 that if we are living up to the light given us, walking in the light in fellowship with both God and other Christians, the blood of Jesus Christ continues to cleanse us from all sin. So unknown sin and the such are covered by the blood. We don't have to continually look over our shoulders in fear. It is totally unnecessary to be saved each time we fall on our faces. We need only to confess that we screwed up and God promises to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. God has given us a heart that wants to please Him and walk with Him. Saving faith is the kind of faith that produces good fruit. It is not dead philosophy or purely intellectual.

[Bible2]

His_disciple3 said in post 17:

 

. . . as Jude quoted we are presented to the One that can keep us from falling . . .

 

Amen.

 

But note that Jude 1:24 doesn't require once-saved-always-saved, for it shows only what God's help makes possible for initially saved people, not what is assured. For initially saved people can wrongly employ their free will to fall into apostasy, unrepentant sin, or laziness, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, Hebrews 10:26-29, Matthew 25:26-30).

 

His_disciple3 said in post 17:

 

. . . Father I have Not lost one that you have given me except the son of perdition.

 

Note that John 17:12 doesn't mean no saved person can ultimately be lost (as in, e.g., Hebrews 10:26-29), but refers only to none of the chosen/elect/saved 12 apostles (Luke 6:13) becoming lost, except Judas.

 

Even though Judas was chosen/elect/saved/empowered like the other apostles (Luke 6:13-16, Mark 6:7-13, Matthew 19:28), he still subsequently became a devil (John 6:70-71) and unsaved (Mark 14:21), because he wrongly employed his free will to begin to love money more than Jesus (John 12:3-6, Mark 14:3-11; cf. 1 Timothy 6:10, Matthew 6:24).

 

His_disciple3 said in post 17:

 

My salvation is eternal redemption . . .

 

Note that possessing something which is eternal in itself doesn't require that someone will eternally keep possession of it. For example, imagine that one of the eternal precious stones of the city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:19) happened to be given to someone living now on the earth, and he kept it in his pocket. But after a few years, he got complacent about it and sold it to a jeweler for a tremendous load of cash (cf. Hebrews 12:16-17). Does this mean it wasn't eternal?