Uncertain Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 239 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 226 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/02/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/20/1959 Share Posted June 13, 2015 The big crime here was that a Florida principal's freedom of speech was violated because of one sentence in support of the police officer. That's what we really need to be concerned about. There was no violation of free speech rights, the right to free speech does not remove the consequences that might accompany it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Uncertain actually brings up a point. The principal was not brought up on criminal charges by the government. He may have been fired-for no good reason, but his free speech was not hindered by the federal government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 No, Uncertain does not have a point, Pat. His free speech was attacked. It may not have been attacked by the government, but the fact is that if one is not free to speak their minds without fear of reprisal, then it is not free speech. You cannot punish protected speech. Otherwise what's the point??? If there are adverse consequences to free speech, then there is no such thing as free speech. The whole idea behind free speech is that we are allowed to speak our minds (within reason) without being punished. The principal was not speaking as a representative of the school, was and it is not even clear if he was even on the clock when he said it. He stood up for the policeman and he was punished. Free speech infringement doesn't only come from the government. If he had criticized his employer or made rude, lurid or inappropriate remarks about a co-worker, that would be different. But he made one sentence statement and to fire him over that was a violation of his right to free speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,138 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,859 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2015 if his speech was attacked it was attacked by the school board...... but I will say that here we do expect our school employees to present themselves in a professional manor at all times...... you can loose your job for doing and saying things. Since I have no idea what he posted, I have no idea if his job loss is justified or not..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted June 13, 2015 No, Uncertain does not have a point, Pat. His free speech was attacked. It may not have been attacked by the government, but the fact is that if one is not free to speak their minds without fear of reprisal, then it is not free speech. You cannot punish protected speech. Otherwise what's the point??? If there are adverse consequences to free speech, then there is no such thing as free speech. The whole idea behind free speech is that we are allowed to speak our minds (within reason) without being punished. The principal was not speaking as a representative of the school, was and it is not even clear if he was even on the clock when he said it. He stood up for the policeman and he was punished. Free speech infringement doesn't only come from the government. If he had criticized his employer or made rude, lurid or inappropriate remarks about a co-worker, that would be different. But he made one sentence statement and to fire him over that was a violation of his right to free speech. by the school board maybe, but the constition doesnt protect us from private parties or even schools, but from the government. He can say what he wants-but the first ammendment doesnt garentee that you wont have to deal with the consequences from your fellow man. The only thing thats iffy, that im on the line about is it was a school board-which is run by the government, which makes it borderline. If it was from a private institution, like a private school, then the school has every right to fire him. Would be be stupid and vindicative on the schools part, sure, but they have the right to do so. The fact its a public school makes it a bit iffy, but even then-its not a federal government, but local that runs the school. So I can go either way. What he said was right-and I think the firing was unjustified-that doesnt necessarily mean that anyones 1st ammendment rights were attacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncertain Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 239 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 226 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/02/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/20/1959 Share Posted June 13, 2015 A great many people fail to understand the right to free speech, they believe it gives them the right to say whatever they like consequence free, but that is not the case. The constitution keeps the government from limiting our free speech, it is not a get out of free card. His employer has every right to protect their brand and are under no obligation to withhold consequences in the name of free speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah, except that his comments were not made in representation of his company. He was not speaking as a principal, but as a free American citizen. And even if his boss didn't like his statement, freedom of speech is promised to all Americans and no one, not me, not you, no one has the right to punish someone for speaking their mind on current events. Sorry, uncertain... but you're wrong on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I dont know shiloh, the only area that I think is a grey area is it was a school that did it. If it had been a private instition, Id be in 100% agreement with uncertain, that they had a right to do so. Granted, I would also be boycotting that instition, for being communists, but it is their right. The fact it was a government run instition though, is the only grey area on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncertain Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 239 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 226 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/02/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/20/1959 Share Posted June 13, 2015 It is irrelevant if he was representing his employer, they still have the right to protect their brand. As I stated above, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences, it just isn't. He is free to say what he wants, he can say it again tomorrow, nobody has taken that from him. When you provide the story of his firing being overturned by a court of law I will be glad to admit I am wrong, till such time I am 100% correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2015 No, Uncertain does not have a point, Pat. His free speech was attacked. It may not have been attacked by the government, but the fact is that if one is not free to speak their minds without fear of reprisal, then it is not free speech. You cannot punish protected speech. Otherwise what's the point??? If there are adverse consequences to free speech, then there is no such thing as free speech. The whole idea behind free speech is that we are allowed to speak our minds (within reason) without being punished. The principal was not speaking as a representative of the school, was and it is not even clear if he was even on the clock when he said it. He stood up for the policeman and he was punished. Free speech infringement doesn't only come from the government. If he had criticized his employer or made rude, lurid or inappropriate remarks about a co-worker, that would be different. But he made one sentence statement and to fire him over that was a violation of his right to free speech. Actually our free speech rights are protected to the extent that the government can't stop us from saying what we want to say. But employers can and that includes a state government run school system (most school system employees are bound by a contract of some sort). Private business can. For instance, if George doesn't want you to post something on this forum he can delete it or ban you because it's a privately owned enterprise. He CAN'T however have you arrested for posting it. It's a fine line but it's worked for over 200 years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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