What is the difference in the rapture and the second coming?

[Serving]

 

There is a literal declaration of the 1000 years in revelations .. the seal.

 

We all know what a seal is right .. look at this small descriptive I cut out of an overall explanation regarding seals :

 

For legal purposes, the definition of a seal may be extended to include rubber stamps,[2] or writing specified words ("seal" or "L.S.").[3]

 

Now look at the 3 legal terms God imparted onto the very literal seal :

 

Revelation 20:3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should (1) deceive the nations no more, (2) till the thousand years should be fulfilled: (3) and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

No symbolism there .. the charges & TERMS are all plainly laid out legal speak from God.

 

Now some might say, "ahh, but a 1000 years with God is as 1 day" ..  er .. no sorry .. not good enough .. the context God made that declaration in had to do with the effects of time in regards to Himself in the context of His immortality .. so it would be an null & void counter to the very literal rendering of the above declaration because God is using the time frame relevant to PLANET EARTH & the NATIONS which ARE subject to the effects of time.

 

The 1000 years is literal .. no doubt whatsoever.

 

Cheers.

 

 

Why do you believe the seals make this an event future to John and the 1st century christians?  I'm sorry, I just don't follow how this mandates your understanding.

 

 

Hi T,

 

Firstly, my response was given in regards to the call for ANY proof / evidence towards a LITERAL 1000 year reign in the scriptures .. I have accomplished that.

 

So rather than just ignore this strong evidence I have supplied, I would first ask you to either a) refute it, or b) acknowledge it. 

 

We can not just ignore evidence whether contradictory to our own precepts or not, especially when the demand is made for evidence & that evidence is then supplied .. only to ignore such evidence and instead attempt to change the subject hoping that such evidence then conveniently "goes away". 

 

No, that is not honest debate and hints at pre conceived notions / beliefs overriding scriptural truth for personal gratification & that will not do.

 

I follow Christ & study His word for His truth & not for my preferred truth or for some religious establishment's "truth" .. many a time I have just let go of erroneous interpretations for that truth's sake it is called swallowing one's pride & forsaking one's own precepts for Christ's precepts .. achieve that, and the Lord will indeed reward the one doing so with blessings of knowledge & understanding perfected on ANY given subject when each said subject is honestly approached in that way.

 

Thus it is said, "be mindful how you hear, for what measure you mete will be meted unto you" .. if one approaches the scriptures with pre conceived notions & then interprets / filters the scriptures through those notions & one will never achieve true understanding but will be tossed by the winds of a thousand contradictory doctrines.

 

So please T, again, either a) refute my evidence or b) acknowledge it.

 

Only then will I answer your question.

 

Regards.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Serving

[thereselittleflower]

 

 

There is a literal declaration of the 1000 years in revelations .. the seal.

 

We all know what a seal is right .. look at this small descriptive I cut out of an overall explanation regarding seals :

 

For legal purposes, the definition of a seal may be extended to include rubber stamps,[2] or writing specified words ("seal" or "L.S.").[3]

 

Now look at the 3 legal terms God imparted onto the very literal seal :

 

Revelation 20:3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should (1) deceive the nations no more, (2) till the thousand years should be fulfilled: (3) and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

No symbolism there .. the charges & TERMS are all plainly laid out legal speak from God.

 

Now some might say, "ahh, but a 1000 years with God is as 1 day" ..  er .. no sorry .. not good enough .. the context God made that declaration in had to do with the effects of time in regards to Himself in the context of His immortality .. so it would be an null & void counter to the very literal rendering of the above declaration because God is using the time frame relevant to PLANET EARTH & the NATIONS which ARE subject to the effects of time.

 

The 1000 years is literal .. no doubt whatsoever.

 

Cheers.

 

 

Why do you believe the seals make this an event future to John and the 1st century christians?  I'm sorry, I just don't follow how this mandates your understanding.

 

 

Hi T,

 

Firstly, my response was given in regards to the call for ANY proof / evidence towards a LITERAL 1000 year reign in the scriptures .. I have accomplished that.

 

So rather than just ignore this strong evidence I have supplied, I would first ask you to either a) refute it, or b) acknowledge it. 

 

We can not just ignore evidence whether contradictory to our own precepts or not, especially when the demand is made for evidence & that evidence is then supplied .. only to ignore such evidence and instead attempt to change the subject hoping that such evidence then conveniently "goes away". 

 

No, that is not honest debate and hints at pre conceived notions / beliefs overriding scriptural truth for personal gratification & that will not do.

 

I follow Christ & study His word for His truth & not for my preferred truth or for some religious establishment's "truth" .. many a time I have just let go of erroneous interpretations for that truth's sake it is called swallowing one's pride & forsaking one's own precepts for Christ's precepts .. achieve that, and the Lord will indeed reward the one doing so with blessings of knowledge & understanding perfected on ANY given subject when each said subject is honestly approached in that way.

 

Thus it is said, "be mindful how you hear, for what measure you mete will be meted unto you" .. if one approaches the scriptures with pre conceived notions & then interprets / filters the scriptures through those notions & one will never achieve true understanding but will be tossed by the winds of a thousand contradictory doctrines.

 

So please T, again, either a) refute my evidence or b) acknowledge it.

 

Only then will I answer your question.

 

Regards.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I know you think you have provided proof, and somehow that proof has to do with the seals,. but I simply don't see it.   How can I refute what you've said if I don't understand what it is you're saying?   I asked a clarifying question.    I guess we can go no further because I simply do not understand what you are trying to claim here.

[FresnoJoe]

This defies all rationality, all logic, all right use of reason.

 

 

This Defies All Rationality,

 

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Revelation 20:4-7

 

All Logic, All Right Use

 

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

 

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

 

And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

 

The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

 

All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart. Zechariah 12:9-14

 

Of Reason

 

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

 

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

 

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:7-9

 

 

Joe, you're making me look at that passage again.

 

I may have to get back to you later on this though.

 

 

Beloved, Take All The Time You Desire

 

And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul's message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth. Acts 17:11 (NIV)

 

For Only God

 

In the same way, when you obey me you should say, 'We are unworthy servants who have simply done our duty.'" Luke 17:10 (NIV)

 

Wins

 

"I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to anyone else, nor share my praise with carved idols. Isaiah 42:8 (NIV)

 

[Serving]

 

 

 

There is a literal declaration of the 1000 years in revelations .. the seal.

 

We all know what a seal is right .. look at this small descriptive I cut out of an overall explanation regarding seals :

 

For legal purposes, the definition of a seal may be extended to include rubber stamps,[2] or writing specified words ("seal" or "L.S.").[3]

 

Now look at the 3 legal terms God imparted onto the very literal seal :

 

Revelation 20:3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should (1) deceive the nations no more, (2) till the thousand years should be fulfilled: (3) and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

No symbolism there .. the charges & TERMS are all plainly laid out legal speak from God.

 

Now some might say, "ahh, but a 1000 years with God is as 1 day" ..  er .. no sorry .. not good enough .. the context God made that declaration in had to do with the effects of time in regards to Himself in the context of His immortality .. so it would be an null & void counter to the very literal rendering of the above declaration because God is using the time frame relevant to PLANET EARTH & the NATIONS which ARE subject to the effects of time.

 

The 1000 years is literal .. no doubt whatsoever.

 

Cheers.

 

 

Why do you believe the seals make this an event future to John and the 1st century christians?  I'm sorry, I just don't follow how this mandates your understanding.

 

 

Hi T,

 

Firstly, my response was given in regards to the call for ANY proof / evidence towards a LITERAL 1000 year reign in the scriptures .. I have accomplished that.

 

So rather than just ignore this strong evidence I have supplied, I would first ask you to either a) refute it, or b) acknowledge it. 

 

We can not just ignore evidence whether contradictory to our own precepts or not, especially when the demand is made for evidence & that evidence is then supplied .. only to ignore such evidence and instead attempt to change the subject hoping that such evidence then conveniently "goes away". 

 

No, that is not honest debate and hints at pre conceived notions / beliefs overriding scriptural truth for personal gratification & that will not do.

 

I follow Christ & study His word for His truth & not for my preferred truth or for some religious establishment's "truth" .. many a time I have just let go of erroneous interpretations for that truth's sake it is called swallowing one's pride & forsaking one's own precepts for Christ's precepts .. achieve that, and the Lord will indeed reward the one doing so with blessings of knowledge & understanding perfected on ANY given subject when each said subject is honestly approached in that way.

 

Thus it is said, "be mindful how you hear, for what measure you mete will be meted unto you" .. if one approaches the scriptures with pre conceived notions & then interprets / filters the scriptures through those notions & one will never achieve true understanding but will be tossed by the winds of a thousand contradictory doctrines.

 

So please T, again, either a) refute my evidence or b) acknowledge it.

 

Only then will I answer your question.

 

Regards.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I know you think you have provided proof, and somehow that proof has to do with the seals,. but I simply don't see it.   How can I refute what you've said if I don't understand what it is you're saying?   I asked a clarifying question.    I guess we can go no further because I simply do not understand what you are trying to claim here.

 

 

Hi T,

 

Hmm .. okay let me try another angle ..

 

Firstly, According to scripture, Satan will be locked up for a thousand years when Christ returns at the 2nd coming .. it just so happens that scriptures also declare that there will be a period of 1000 years (one millennium) beginning at Christ's 2nd coming where Christ will be ruling over not only the restored kingdom of Israel, but also exercise direct hands on control over the whole world where unpolluted truth will be taught world wide.

 

(note : the kingdom is for Israel's benefit not the saints, for the saints are by then already accepted & changed & physically with Christ meaning no longer of this world)

 

Satan locked up for 1000 years at the 2nd coming .. Christ rules 1000 years starting at His 2nd coming .. see my point T. flower? 

 

Since the dispute seems to be over a symbolic rendering of the 1000 years v's a literal rendering .. and from the relationship between the two events occurring at the 2nd coming exampled above, I therefore, and on that premise, supplied evidence of a literal example for the 1000 years in scripture, since the seal is relative to TIME in regards to NATIONS here on earth which ARE subject to literal TIME keeping meaning 1000 literal EARTH YEARS. 

 

That is .. 1000 EARTH years must pass before Satan is released for a little season (short span of human TIME) which just happens to coincide with the ending of Christ's allotted 1000 EARTH years ..  do you see my point?

 

Secondly, and slightly off of this seal evidence yet complimenting it at the same time .. exactly WHO do you think Christ's ruling with a rod of iron is for?

 

Christ's saints OBEY & love their Lord & are loved back .. even more emphasized when they are changed into immortal beings .. when one is changed from mortality into immortality .. one is PERFRECTED .. when one is PERFECTED, one can NO LONGER SIN .. since one can NO LONGER SIN .. one is NOT subject to a rod of iron .. since those changed & PERFECTED are not subject to a rod of iron then the rod of iron by default must therefore fall upon those who are NOT PERFECTED .. and if one is NOT PERFECTED, then one is not CHANGED .. and if one is not CHANGED,  then one is still MORTAL .. and since ALL saints are CHANGED & PERFECTED at the 2nd coming .. then those others are by default NOT CHANGED meaning they were NOT Christian when Christ RETURNED .. and since they are STILL ALIVE during the millennium, therefore there is ONLY ONE OUTCOME .. they WILL be getting taught .. and since the rod of iron is needed, then that also tells us there will be those who REFUSE to change and therefore need be kept in line so as NOT to pollute those who are accepting the teachings.

 

Please ponder on that for as long as needed .. it is not so hard to grasp when approached with a desire to understand.

 

Regards.

[Omegaman 3.0]

The gathering of the elect from the four winds is a reference to the gathering of believing Jews (called an elect remnant is Scripture) at the Second Coming of Christ.  

 

Something which many Christians fail to understand is that the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24) has nothing whatsoever to do with the Church, 

 

 

So you keep saying!

[Kan]

I do not see a time period, but there might be a sequence implied by the word "then", Of course, if then refers to the same thing as the other then, it would meant at that time, so it could be seen either way I guess. However, Pauls tells us that when the Lord comes, the dead in Christ will rise first, THEN we who are alive will be caught up to join them in the clouds, so that seems to clarify this to

 

1. The Lord appears in the sky at His coming
2. The dead in Christ rise first
3. Then we who are alive will rise to meet them in the air.

15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air  - 1 Thess 4

 

Agree, the sequence in these events can be verified from other passages in Scripture, so we can safely say they are in order, but like you said, time wise, is it a day or two or is it decades as some people have it? I believe that could be determined as well, because there are enough people here with the knowledge on related texts, even if we don't see the same right now.

[thereselittleflower]

 

 

 

 

There is a literal declaration of the 1000 years in revelations .. the seal.

 

We all know what a seal is right .. look at this small descriptive I cut out of an overall explanation regarding seals :

 

For legal purposes, the definition of a seal may be extended to include rubber stamps,[2] or writing specified words ("seal" or "L.S.").[3]

 

Now look at the 3 legal terms God imparted onto the very literal seal :

 

Revelation 20:3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should (1) deceive the nations no more, (2) till the thousand years should be fulfilled: (3) and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

No symbolism there .. the charges & TERMS are all plainly laid out legal speak from God.

 

Now some might say, "ahh, but a 1000 years with God is as 1 day" ..  er .. no sorry .. not good enough .. the context God made that declaration in had to do with the effects of time in regards to Himself in the context of His immortality .. so it would be an null & void counter to the very literal rendering of the above declaration because God is using the time frame relevant to PLANET EARTH & the NATIONS which ARE subject to the effects of time.

 

The 1000 years is literal .. no doubt whatsoever.

 

Cheers.

 

 

Why do you believe the seals make this an event future to John and the 1st century christians?  I'm sorry, I just don't follow how this mandates your understanding.

 

 

Hi T,

 

Firstly, my response was given in regards to the call for ANY proof / evidence towards a LITERAL 1000 year reign in the scriptures .. I have accomplished that.

 

So rather than just ignore this strong evidence I have supplied, I would first ask you to either a) refute it, or b) acknowledge it. 

 

We can not just ignore evidence whether contradictory to our own precepts or not, especially when the demand is made for evidence & that evidence is then supplied .. only to ignore such evidence and instead attempt to change the subject hoping that such evidence then conveniently "goes away". 

 

No, that is not honest debate and hints at pre conceived notions / beliefs overriding scriptural truth for personal gratification & that will not do.

 

I follow Christ & study His word for His truth & not for my preferred truth or for some religious establishment's "truth" .. many a time I have just let go of erroneous interpretations for that truth's sake it is called swallowing one's pride & forsaking one's own precepts for Christ's precepts .. achieve that, and the Lord will indeed reward the one doing so with blessings of knowledge & understanding perfected on ANY given subject when each said subject is honestly approached in that way.

 

Thus it is said, "be mindful how you hear, for what measure you mete will be meted unto you" .. if one approaches the scriptures with pre conceived notions & then interprets / filters the scriptures through those notions & one will never achieve true understanding but will be tossed by the winds of a thousand contradictory doctrines.

 

So please T, again, either a) refute my evidence or b) acknowledge it.

 

Only then will I answer your question.

 

Regards.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I know you think you have provided proof, and somehow that proof has to do with the seals,. but I simply don't see it.   How can I refute what you've said if I don't understand what it is you're saying?   I asked a clarifying question.    I guess we can go no further because I simply do not understand what you are trying to claim here.

 

 

Hi T,

 

Hmm .. okay let me try another angle ..

 

Firstly, According to scripture, Satan will be locked up for a thousand years when Christ returns at the 2nd coming .. it just so happens that scriptures also declare that there will be a period of 1000 years (one millennium) beginning at Christ's 2nd coming where Christ will be ruling over not only the restored kingdom of Israel, but also exercise direct hands on control over the whole world where unpolluted truth will be taught world wide.

 

(note : the kingdom is for Israel's benefit not the saints, for the saints are by then already accepted & changed & physically with Christ meaning no longer of this world)

 

Satan locked up for 1000 years at the 2nd coming .. Christ rules 1000 years starting at His 2nd coming .. see my point T. flower? 

 

Since the dispute seems to be over a symbolic rendering of the 1000 years v's a literal rendering .. and from the relationship between the two events occurring at the 2nd coming exampled above, I therefore, and on that premise, supplied evidence of a literal example for the 1000 years in scripture, since the seal is relative to TIME in regards to NATIONS here on earth which ARE subject to literal TIME keeping meaning 1000 literal EARTH YEARS. 

 

That is .. 1000 EARTH years must pass before Satan is released for a little season (short span of human TIME) which just happens to coincide with the ending of Christ's allotted 1000 EARTH years ..  do you see my point?

 

Secondly, and slightly off of this seal evidence yet complimenting it at the same time .. exactly WHO do you think Christ's ruling with a rod of iron is for?

 

Christ's saints OBEY & love their Lord & are loved back .. even more emphasized when they are changed into immortal beings .. when one is changed from mortality into immortality .. one is PERFRECTED .. when one is PERFECTED, one can NO LONGER SIN .. since one can NO LONGER SIN .. one is NOT subject to a rod of iron .. since those changed & PERFECTED are not subject to a rod of iron then the rod of iron by default must therefore fall upon those who are NOT PERFECTED .. and if one is NOT PERFECTED, then one is not CHANGED .. and if one is not CHANGED,  then one is still MORTAL .. and since ALL saints are CHANGED & PERFECTED at the 2nd coming .. then those others are by default NOT CHANGED meaning they were NOT Christian when Christ RETURNED .. and since they are STILL ALIVE during the millennium, therefore there is ONLY ONE OUTCOME .. they WILL be getting taught .. and since the rod of iron is needed, then that also tells us there will be those who REFUSE to change and therefore need be kept in line so as NOT to pollute those who are accepting the teachings.

 

Please ponder on that for as long as needed .. it is not so hard to grasp when approached with a desire to understand.

 

Regards.

 

 

Ok so let me make sure I understand what you are saying in regards to the seals.

 

Since the passage uses the word seals, this makes everything in that passage literal?   I'm sorry, I truly am having difficulty following what you are trying to say.

 

If I take what you said here:

 

" I therefore, and on that premise, supplied evidence of a literal example for the 1000 years in scripture, since the seal is relative to TIME in regards to NATIONS here on earth which ARE subject to literal TIME keeping meaning 1000 literal EARTH YEARS. "

 

 

I wish I could draw a diagram to more clearly illustrate what I see you saying, for I am afraid that without understanding each other, we can be like ships passing in the night.

 

Let me tackle it this way, and tell me if I am  understanding you correctly.

 

In life around us, nations are subject to literal time.         I agree.

 

Since this passage in Revelation tells us about the seal, this seal points to the time frame this passage speaks of - "a thousand years."     I agree.

 

"a thousand years"  concerns a period of time.       I agree.

 

this period of time concerns nations.

 

So because the seal points to a period of time,   and that period of time concerns nations, and nations in real life are subject to the literal passage of time,   then all this should be taken together to mean that the "thousand years" is a literal period of time.

 

 

Am I understanding this correctly?

[Kan]

 

See what you have started bopeep? I think the difference might

be a matter of a few seconds. Better than any theme park ride!

Actually, typical pre-tribism, has the rapture, followed by the second coming, I think the order is reversed.

 

29“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31“And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

 

I think we have there the second coming (coming on the clouds) and the rapture (gathering of the elect) in that order.

 

The gathering of the elect from the four winds is a reference to the gathering of believing Jews (called an elect remnant is Scripture) at the Second Coming of Christ.  That will be long after the Rapture.  At the Rapture Christ personally comes for His saints (the Church), but here He sends His angels to gather Jews from around the world, and "so all Israel shall be saved" (Rom 11:26).  Big difference.  Scripture says "the Lord HIMSELF" in connection with the Rapture.

 

Something which many Christians fail to understand is that the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24) has nothing whatsoever to do with the Church, and everything to do with Jerusalem, the Temple, the Jews, and Judea.  It is addressed to Jews and it is a revelation of how things will progress in Judea and Jerusalem until the Second Coming.  At the same time, it gives an overview of the events which will occur worldwide between the first and second advents of Christ.

 

The Lord did not bring the Church into the picture at this time (prior to His resurrection) because it would have been premature.  Even after Pentecost, Peter had to struggle with the idea that Gentiles would be a part of the Church.  It is only in Paul's epistles that we are given a revelation of what the Church is and how Christ will return for His saints. 

 

The Rapture and the Second Coming cannot be simultaneous, and indeed there is absolutely nothing in Revelation (or anywhere else to show such an anomaly).

The Rapture is for salvation, while the Second Coming is for judgment (Jude 14,15; Rev 1:7))

¹⁴ And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

¹⁵ To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

Please notice the universal mourning at the Second Coming.  How can that be compatible with the Rapture?  There is a gap of at least seven years between the two events, but the time differential could be greater also.

 

 

You say that the two events cannot possibly be one and the same, because, as one example of many, of the state of mourning of the earth when Christ returns.

But what if the majority are not ready that would describe the scene regardless of a pre rapture wouldn't it?

 

You also mentioned htis time as one of judgement - Can you see how a judgement is only ever a threat to the unrepentant, but to the repentant it is salvation from persecution?

 

No doubt you could supply many other reasons, but are there any texts which talk about the rapture which cannot be doubly applied to the return of Christ?

 

I don't know all the supporting texts as some of you do, so I am willing to test if this can be done.

[FresnoJoe]

The gathering of the elect from the four winds is a reference to the gathering of believing Jews (called an elect remnant is Scripture) at the Second Coming of Christ.  

 

Something which many Christians fail to understand is that the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24) has nothing whatsoever to do with the Church, 

 

So you keep saying!

 

~

 

Sometimes

 

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:27

 

His Holy Words To Israel

 

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Mark 13:13

 

Just Blesses The Socks Off This Gentle Boy

 

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. Luke 21:27-28

 

See~!

 

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

[Serving]

Hi T.flower,

 

 

Ok so let me make sure I understand what you are saying in regards to the seals.

 

Um .. No, I am not speaking of the seals as in the 7 seals, no, I am speaking of this seal :

 

Revelation 20:2-3 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

 

Since the passage uses the word seals, this makes everything in that passage literal?  

 

No, not seals but seal .. singular.

 

 

I'm sorry, I truly am having difficulty following what you are trying to say.

 

Okay, I understand, no problem T.

 

 

If I take what you said here:

"I therefore, and on that premise, supplied evidence of a literal example for the 1000 years in scripture, since the seal is relative to TIME in regards to NATIONS here on earth which ARE subject to literal TIME keeping meaning 1000 literal EARTH YEARS. "

I wish I could draw a diagram to more clearly illustrate what I see you saying, for I am afraid that without understanding each other, we can be like ships passing in the night.

Let me tackle it this way, and tell me if I am  understanding you correctly.

In life around us, nations are subject to literal time.         I agree.

 

Good .. correct yes.

 

 

Since this passage in Revelation tells us about the seal, this seal points to the time frame this passage speaks of - "a thousand years."     I agree.

 

Yes, since the 1000 years is relative to the nations, meaning, 1000 literal earth years .. time which is relative to nations / humans.

 

 

"a thousand years"  concerns a period of time.       I agree.

 

In this case with relation to nations as is revealed in the seal, literal time .. not time gauged by some metaphoric "clock" .. literal earth time that nations / humans are subject to, 1000 years of literal earth years .. yes.

 

 

this period of time concerns nations.

 

As God (not me) revealed in that seal .. yes.

 

 

So because the seal points to a period of time,   and that period of time concerns nations, and nations in real life are subject to the literal passage of time,   then all this should be taken together to mean that the "thousand years" is a literal period of time.

 

Yes .. how else can one take it unless one twists it to suit something else?

 

The subject I was responding to dealt with 1000 literal years v's 1000 metaphoric years and the call for scriptural evidence to back the 1000 literal years which I have given, 

 

Look at the chronological order which is speaking of literal events within that whole chapter 20 of revelations .. no metaphors are present in that certain chapter at all, the whole chapter is clearly describing a literal chain of sequenced events.

 

So yes .. you have understood me quite clearly it seems after all.

 

All I do now, is await your response.

 

Thanks T.flower.