Salvation

[Ezra]

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

Is this an absolute statement?

This is absolutely an absolute statement since God Himself -- the Lord Jesus Christ -- has made this statement.  At the same time there are two sides to the "coin"of believing -- REPENTANCE toward God, and FAITH toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21).

[FresnoJoe]

We are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ alone.   Salvation is Jesus + 0    When we start adding personal effort, works of any kind to the plan of salvation, we are contradicting God's word.

 

How so?

 

 

How

 

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10

 

So

 

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:23-28

[Willa]

IF God exist and the bible is Holy Word, then we are saved despite our failings, despite our human sin nature. I am going through a time of doubt over much of what I thought I knew about God and the bible. The human logic in me is looking at things and going " how does that make sense".

But I also know that the man who baptized Jesus, who heard the voice of God, had a time of doubts. So I think doubt is a normal part of being human.

 

Thomas had doubts as well.  He said he would not believe till he put His hand in the holes in his hands and the hole in His side.  So when Jesus appeared to Thomas he did just that, and then fell on his face before Jesus crying "My Lord and my God!!"   The bottom line is, do you need your sins forgiven?  God demonstrated His love for us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.  

 

It is easy to get our eyes on the sin and ugliness in the world and doubt that there is a God.  It is when we place our eyes back on God's love for us and upon the Savior Who died in our place that we can believe.  So fix you eyes upon Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:1-2

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Ezra.

 

 

Shalom, everyone.

 

I’ll say it only once, and you all can do with it as you please.

 

“Salvation” is the wrong word for what you all are talking about. You are talking about “God’s JUSTIFICATION of an individual.” “Salvation” is almost ALWAYS talking about “RESCUE” or “DELIVERANCE,” and specifically, that refers to God’s RESCUE or DELIVERANCE of His people, the Jews, when He sends His Son back to earth.

 

As I’ve said before, it’s not a matter of “OSAS”; it’s a matter of “OJBGAJBG.” That is, “Once Justified By God, Always Justified By God.” When one gets that much right, it makes a TREMENDOUS difference in the perspective one might have had concerning verses having to do with “salvation” or being “saved."

Retro,

"Salvation" is the broadest term for what God has done for sinners.  It includes deliverance from Hell, deliverance from the power of sin, deliverance from the power of Satan, deliverance from sickness and disease (in many cases), deliverance from bondage to alcohol, drugs, promiscuity, etc.

 

It also includes justification, sanctification, glorification, the remission of sins, the New Birth, the gift of the Holy Spirit, the gift of Christ, the gift of God, the gift of eternal life, the gift of the righteousness of Christ, the Blessed Hope of being perfected by Christ, an eternal inheritance in Heaven, an eternal home in the New Jerusalem, becoming children of God, heirs of God, joint-heirs with Christ, and kings and priests eternally.  One could add many other aspects of salvation such as fellowship with the Godhead, the unction of the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, etc.

 

Therefore to state that "salvation" is the wrong term is to simply mislead others.  Justification by grace through faith is just one aspect of salvation.

 

 

No, sir, that’s not right. “Salvation” is specific within prophecy to the rescue that God will provide for His people, Israel, whether naturally born or grafted in, through His Messiah when He returns. When one comes to accept that fact, all the pieces fall into place. To generalize as you have done and to resist this truth is to mislead oneself! There’s more than one application of “salvation” because it is NOT A LABEL! It’s just a word that means “rescue” or “deliverance.” Context determines what the specific meaning of the word should be, but when it comes to prophecy, the contexts of almost EVERY instance of the word refers to God’s rescue of Israel.

 

These other words, sanctification, for instance, each have their own definitions and usages within context. Sanctification, for instance, means to be “singled out.” It does NOT mean to be “righteous."

 

“Justification" is PRECISELY what Yeshua` was talking about in His parable of the Pharisee and the publican:

 

Luke 18:9-14

9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

KJV

 

The whole point of justification (by God) is to demonstrate the completed work of God to make convicted sinners into His children. Through absolutely NO deed that one may try to perform, God stepped in and did for us the impossible. He DECLARED us “righteous” in spite of our sin, just as He DECLARED the Messiah Yeshua` “sin” for us on the cross and poured out His wrath on that “sin.” That and THAT ALONE is what gives us the promise of eternal life. That and THAT ALONE is what satisfies a HOLY God regarding the sin that once separated us from Him! According to 2 Corinthians 5:14-21, that justification provided the necessary components that were present for us to exchange places with God (reconcile us to God) through His Son Yeshua`:

 

2 Corinthians 5:14-21

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

KJV

 

Verse 21 describes the exchange in detail, and it was through this exchange that one becomes a new creation in the Messiah. THIS is how the “new birth” is realized.

 

And, this is also PRECISELY what David was talking about:

 

Psalm 32:1-2

1 Blessed (Happy) is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed (Happy) is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

KJV

 

“Glorification” is what happens when we, like Mosheh (Moses), begin to GLOW AND SHINE LITERALLY in the presence (sh’kiynah) of God, as radiated by the Son of God. And, the “Blessed Hope” is the HAPPY ASSURANCE AND CONFIDENCE that we can have in the promise that Yeshua` SHALL return!

 

“Being perfected” is “being made MATURE!” It does NOT mean to be made totally sinless or totally without faults or flaws or defects!

 

“An inheritance in heaven” does NOT mean that we are going to “Heaven” to receive our inheritance! It means that our inheritance is “in the sky," which is PRECISELY where we are to look for Yeshua`s coming! When He comes, He brings the inheritance WITH HIM!

 

There are many such details that give us a better picture of what we can expect in our future.

[Guest shiloh357]

Actually, Ezra is right.   You are making a mountain out of a mole hill, Retro

[Mrs Mac]

God's word is truth (John 17:17).  It is most definitely an absolute statement. We are not able to judge a person's heart in relation to God, that is best left to Him. Whatever the actions of anyone or ourselves we cannot deny God's word.

[Ezra]

The future deliverance of Israel is another aspect of God's plan of salvation. At the Second Coming of Christ, the Jews will be gathered to Israel from across the world, they will mourn because of their sin and rebellion, they will repent and be converted, and experience the New Birth when they see their true Messiah coming with power and great glory to deliver them from catastrophe.  There are numerous prophecies which relate to the redemption and restoration of the kingdom of Israel. 

 

But that in no way changes the salvation that God offers right now, and to every sinner who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.  At this moment God does not distinguish between Jew and Gentile.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Ezra.

 

The future deliverance of Israel is another aspect of God's plan of salvation. At the Second Coming of Christ, the Jews will be gathered to Israel from across the world, they will mourn because of their sin and rebellion, they will repent and be converted, and experience the New Birth when they see their true Messiah coming with power and great glory to deliver them from catastrophe.  There are numerous prophecies which relate to the redemption and restoration of the kingdom of Israel. 

 

But that in no way changes the salvation that God offers right now, and to every sinner who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.  At this moment God does not distinguish between Jew and Gentile.

 

Actually, that’s not true. God DOES distinguish between Jew and Gentile! They are only treated the same “IN THE MESSIAH” (“IN CHRIST”)!

 

Galatians 6:12-15

12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

KJV

 

Ephesians 2:11-22

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

KJV

 

He will ALWAYS distinguish between Jews (including grafted-in, believing Gentiles) and OTHER, NON-BELIEVING Gentiles.

 

Look, as Dr. James Dobson has said, “Kids spell ‘love’ T-I-M-E.” So does everyone, when it comes right down to it. Real love, agape love, is found in INVOLVEMENT! One dedicates himself or herself to the well-being of another. God spells “love” the same way:

 

Malachi 1:2-3

2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

KJV

 

Romans 9:13-16

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

KJV

 

How did God “love" Ya`aqov and “hate" Esav? He WORKED with Ya`aqov (Jacob), whether positively (when obeying Him) or negatively (when they disobeyed Him), and He left Esav (Esau) ALONE to waste away!

 

Look, while God has indeed collectively “so loved the world” (John 3:16), God absolutely CANNOT stomach sin (Proverbs 8:13; Isaiah 61:8; Amos 5:21; Zechariah 8:17)! And, there’s the dilemma. He DESIRES all to accept Him and His Justification through His Son, but if some refuse, He has no choice but to treat them as they have treated Him and His Son (John 3:18; Revelation 20:11-15). You KNOW this! Not everyone in the whole world shall God justify (despite what Universalists say)!

 

So, God DOES put Israel on a pedestal, so to speak. Some may not like that, but it is the truth regardless.

[Ezra]

They are only treated the same “IN THE MESSIAH” (“IN CHRIST”)!

And isn't that the message of the New Testament? No Jew or Gentile in Christ. Therefore you are trying to controvert what God has clearly declared in His Word (Rom 10:12,13; Gal 3:26-29):

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.  For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

Retro,

I find that you are constantly trying to adjust God's truths to suit your fancies.  That is a rather dangerous path to tread.  While at the Second Coming of Christ, God will resume His dealings with Israel, until that time THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW AND GENTILE.  God has declared this. 

 

Even replacing Christ with "the Messiah" is another attempt to attack this truth.  "The Messiah" was rejected by His own.  Now He is the Lord Jesus Christ for the whole world.