angels4u Posted August 1, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Did the bible fall out of a typerwriter in the sky my dear brother Joe? Who decided what books should be in the New Testament? The Bible is the Word of God and inspired by the Holy Spirit and they is no other book like it.. Those extra books were not inspired by the Holy Spirit and contain errors ,it can be interesting to read those books but they don't belong in the Bible.. http://www.gotquestions.org/apocrypha-deuterocanonical.html "How do we know that the Bible is the Word of God, and not the Apocrypha, the Qur’an, the Book of Mormon, etc.?" http://www.gotquestions.org/which-book.html Hope this helps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted August 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 1, 2015 Who decided what books should be in the New Testament? The New Testament was already in existence in the form of books and parchments (2 Tim 4:13) while the apostles were on earth. It is God who decided which books should be in the NT, and used the apostles, evangelists, and prophets in the churches to bring it all together. We know from Scripture itself that the bulk of the NT consists of Paul's epistles, and Peter had read ALL of Paul's epistles and deemed them to be Scripture (2 Pet 3:15,16). Peter also proclaimed his own epistles to be Scripture, calling them "a more sure word of prophecy" (2 Pet 1:16-21). Luke also claimed that his Gospel was from above (Gk anothen) which unfortunately was translated in the KJB as "from the very first" (Lk 1:3). Paul quotes from Luke's Gospel about the labourer being worthy of his hire (as Scripture). It is significant to note that there is a document from around 200 AD called The Muratori Canon which actually lists (almost) all the canonical books of the NT. So the canon of Scripture was already in existence after John completed Revelation around 90 AD. Evidently all the churches had copies of the NT while circulating the epistles of the apostles. We seem to forget that God was watching over His own Word, and caused Christians to reject the non-inspired writings such as the Book of Enoch, while holding to the true inspired books. Yet Jude quotes from Enoch, so it has some merit. The canon of the OT had already been established and confirmed by Christ (Lk 24:44,45). "The Psalms" is another term for "The Writings" or Kethubim, which is the third division of the OT after Torah (the Law) and Nebiim (the Prophets). While the Hebrew Tanach or Tanakh (Bible) has 24 books, our Old Testaments simply divide them up further to give a total of 39 books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted August 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,992 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,690 Content Per Day: 11.78 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2015 Did the bible fall out of a typerwriter in the sky my dear brother Joe? Who decided what books should be in the New Testament? Question: "How and when was the canon of the Bible put together?" Answer: The term “canon” is used to describe the books that are divinely inspired and therefore belong in the Bible. The difficulty in determining the biblical canon is that the Bible does not give us a list of the books that belong in the Bible. Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing. It was simply a matter of God’s convincing His human followers which books should be included in the Bible. Compared to the New Testament, there was much less controversy over the canon of the Old Testament. Hebrew believers recognized God’s messengers and accepted their writings as inspired of God. While there was undeniably some debate in regards to the Old Testament canon, by A.D. 250 there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha, with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but not on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures. For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John. The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in A.D. 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In A.D. 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with the Apocrypha) and the 27 books of the New Testament were to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (A.D. 393) and the Council of Carthage (A.D. 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative. The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired. http://www.gotquestions.org/canon-Bible.html Those councils your source mentions in the last paragraph, when did those councils occur? If you read the whole article you will get your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2015 Did the bible fall out of a typerwriter in the sky my dear brother Joe? Who decided what books should be in the New Testament? Question: "How and when was the canon of the Bible put together?" Answer: The term “canon” is used to describe the books that are divinely inspired and therefore belong in the Bible. The difficulty in determining the biblical canon is that the Bible does not give us a list of the books that belong in the Bible. Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing. It was simply a matter of God’s convincing His human followers which books should be included in the Bible. Compared to the New Testament, there was much less controversy over the canon of the Old Testament. Hebrew believers recognized God’s messengers and accepted their writings as inspired of God. While there was undeniably some debate in regards to the Old Testament canon, by A.D. 250 there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha, with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but not on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures. For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John. The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in A.D. 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In A.D. 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with the Apocrypha) and the 27 books of the New Testament were to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (A.D. 393) and the Council of Carthage (A.D. 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative. The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired. http://www.gotquestions.org/canon-Bible.html Those councils your source mentions in the last paragraph, when did those councils occur? If you read the whole article you will get your answer. I know the answer Bopeep. I was asking if you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted August 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,992 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,690 Content Per Day: 11.78 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2015 Did the bible fall out of a typerwriter in the sky my dear brother Joe? Who decided what books should be in the New Testament? Question: "How and when was the canon of the Bible put together?" Answer: The term “canon” is used to describe the books that are divinely inspired and therefore belong in the Bible. The difficulty in determining the biblical canon is that the Bible does not give us a list of the books that belong in the Bible. Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing. It was simply a matter of God’s convincing His human followers which books should be included in the Bible. Compared to the New Testament, there was much less controversy over the canon of the Old Testament. Hebrew believers recognized God’s messengers and accepted their writings as inspired of God. While there was undeniably some debate in regards to the Old Testament canon, by A.D. 250 there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha, with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but not on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures. For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John. The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in A.D. 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In A.D. 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with the Apocrypha) and the 27 books of the New Testament were to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (A.D. 393) and the Council of Carthage (A.D. 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative. The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired. http://www.gotquestions.org/canon-Bible.html Those councils your source mentions in the last paragraph, when did those councils occur? If you read the whole article you will get your answer. I know the answer Bopeep. I was asking if you do. Yes I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2015 @ Other One. Thank you for your insight into Enoch. I wasn't aware there was a third book. I have only read the first two. @ Theresalittleflower. I have a 1611 King James Bible, and it contains 14 books in the Apocrypha. Why do you only recognize 7 of them, and why does the Catholic Church only include 7 of them when 14 were there to begin with? Who authorized the other 7 to be removed? Also, what are the 7 that are still included today and which 7 are left out? @ BoPeep. In the article you posted, it states that the council of Laodicea said that the current books we recognize as scripture, as well as the Apocrypha were to be read in churches. That was 14 books. Doesn't that kind of work against the position you are taking? Ask Questions never explains why those books were reduced to 7 in some churches today and eliminated completely by most. I can look at this one of three ways. I can either draw the conclusion that they never were considered scripture, but were included in the middle because they were still important. I can also take the position that Satan is responsible for the removal of books that are scripture. I can take the position that these books were removed because they don't belong and an earlier mistake was fixed. I personally hold to the first view. I like having all 14 books of the Apocrypha in the center of my 1611 King James Bible, but I don't consider them equal to the 66 books that make up the canon. There are the deuterocanonicals, and then there is the apocrypha. What happened is that when Luther took the 7 deuterocanonicals out of the canon of scripture he relegated them to the apocrypha along with the rest of the apocryphal books. This causes confusion and why I prefer the term deuterocanonical for those 7 books which is how they were known when Luther relegated them to apocryphal status, and how they are still known by those who use them. The other books in the apocryphal were never included in the canon of scripture. If you look at the chart a ways down on this page, you will find what books were included by which Churches, it shows Protestant and Catholic canons, as well as Eastern Orthodox canons, and Oriental Orthodox canons. This topic is really much bigger than we've been discussing here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon It's classified by genre of books Pentateuch History Wisdom Major prophets Minor prophets It's quite an interesting chart. And again, regarding the apocrypha some of those books you have were never scripture. Some were and removed for protestant bible. Catholics and Orthodox continue to recognize them as scripture as they always have, and the Orthodox recognize even more than the Catholics do. (again that chart is very enlightening). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The apocryphal books are full of historical and theological errors, which completely disqualifies them from being inspired Scripture. There are NO errors, either historical or in the 66 books of the only true Bible. I would point out, as well that Satan never attacks the Apocrypha. The only books that receive the brunt of attack by skeptics/atheists are the 66 books of the true Bible. Satan only attacks the Word of God. There are scores of documentaries by secular people attempting to debunk the Gospels, the book of Genesis, the historicity of David and Solomon, the Bible's covenantal claims about the Holy Land, the authenticity of Pauls' apostleship, and so on. No one spends much time debunking the apocryphal books. Oh, there might be a scant few that try to attack the Apocrypha out there, but 99.9% of the time, its the 66 books of the true Bible that are focus of skeptics Satan only goes after the Word of God to attack and discredit it. The exclusive focus of Satan on these 66 books of God's word is an indicator that the Apocrypha is not of God. The canon of scripture was chosen by God, not the Church. The Church did not sit in authority over the Bible and decide which books made the cut. Rather the Church discovered the canon. God revealed the canon. The Apocrypha was not part of that canon and was added later by the RCC. Rather than asking by whose authority Bible believing Christians rejected the apocryphal books, the right question to ask by what authority did the apostate Roman Catholic "church" add to the word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2015 When and how did God choose the canon of scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The canon was closed with the writings of John. He was the last human writer of Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2015 The canon was closed with the writings of John. He was the last human writer of Scripture. How was this done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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