Pastors who lose faith

[ricky]

I was reading an article someone posted about a group of former pastors who have become atheist. In the replies on the article someone said that such people should lose any pension/other retirement benefits given by the church. I personally agree with such a position, as I see such people as traitors to the faith, and too the church. The US don't normally give Vet benefits to soldiers who defect to the enemy, why should the church give pension benefits to pastors who abandon the Faith?

[MorningGlory]

They shouldn't. 

[Hall7]

I think its sad that the Church has become a business that's what I think. Nor Jesus or His apostles got paid to preach.

[Qnts2]

In the U.S., pension plans are under the guidelines set up by the laws of the government. That means that if you have paid into a pension, or the company has paid under your behalf, that money is yours to collect upon retirement. The company might discontinue the pension plan, but those who already had one before the change, keep the money already in the plan. It might be that the change stops any further contributions, but what is there already is yours when you retire. It can not be taken away.

 

The one exception in the law is for churches. Rather then face the issues with the feds overseeing church pension plans to make sure they are legal, churches were excluded from the requirements of the law. That means, a church could withhold a pension. It is legal to do that.

 

Church related organizations who fall under the exclusion have done considerable damage to retirees. Imagine working for 27 years as a dedicated employee of a church or church related organization. Had a pension plan which is excluded from federal laws. That also means the church organization does not have to fully fund the pension plans. After 27 years, the pension fund is near 0 as the money was used for other things, and now, you have no pension. Since a church is not under the law, there is not regulating it, so there is nothing you can do. You no longer have the pension and not enough time to transfer to another group to build a pension.   

 

Ok, so a pastor who has worked at a church for 27 years has a crisis of faith (or more likely was not a biblical Christian at all) and becomes an atheist. The church can take away the pension because the feds do not regulate church pension plans, but in my view, the church promised to provide a pension. It is legal not to, but I see an issue in morality and failing to fulfill a promise. It comes down to, take away the pension, and the church has lied about providing the pension. 

[The_Patriot21]

Well if they're atheists, then they arnt preaching Jesus anymore so in essence they are no longer pastors.

With that said with how poorly treated pastors are today its amazing we don't have more turning from their faith.

[missmuffet]

Yes I think they should lose retirement and pension benefits.They were a counterfeit they did not believe in their heart in the beginning.

[ricky]

I do think we need to treat our own pastors better. I know of times when I have failed in this aspect. My reply was too Patriot. 

Edited August 3, 2015 by saved_ricky

[1to3]

I think its sad that the Church has become a business that's what I think. Nor Jesus or His apostles got paid to preach.

 

 

I agree with you,

 

I wish churches would be more run like the 12 traditions taken from the anonymous groups that exist today that take their format from the original A.A. groups ,

where every on who attends, takes part in some way to contribute that the meetings keep going,where the money is fairly distributed to the needs at hand and where the pride of man is left outside the door of the gatherings.

But nothing  runs as perfectly as instructions are laid out to run, unless it is a machine and that too eventually has a breaking point and a repairman has to be called in or the machine needs to be replaced.

 

In all church formats, denominations, the corruption always enters from the top and trickles down.

 

Taken from: Twelve Traditions Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Traditions

 

The Twelve Traditions of twelve-step programs provide guidelines for relationships between the twelve-step groups, members, other groups, the global fellowship, and society at large. Questions of finance, public relations, donations, and purpose are addressed in the Traditions. They were originally written by Bill Wilson after the founding of the first twelve-step group, Alcoholics Anonymous.

 

[OldSchool2]

... Ok, so a pastor who has worked at a church for 27 years has a crisis of faith (or more likely was not a biblical Christian at all) and becomes an atheist. The church can take away the pension because the feds do not regulate church pension plans....

... but I wonder how biblical these so-called "churches" even are to hire such pastors to begin with?

[The_Patriot21]

Well its hard to judge a church because of that. My grandparents church had a pastor that seemed solid-preached a very very biblical message, lived a good christian life, served the church for years-thrn one day out of nowhere he up and left his wife and kids and took off with the church secretary... Just saying. Maybe he was never saved, maybe he backslider, who knows maybe he walked away from his faith... Regardless of why there was no outward signs he was going to do that.