rjp34652 Posted August 23, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 156 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) hello everyone, I have for years believed that the restrainer ,the one that holds back the evil one is the holy spirit , and we are filled with the holy spirit so once the believers were removed from the worldy scene then the evil one would come and tribulation would start, but I have done some study, and I believe that the Restrainer is the arch angel micheal, as spoken of 2 thess 2;3-8 and in Daniel 12 the time of the end when he stands, and this brings us to why it is said we don't wrestle with flesh and blood but the powers of darkness and principalities in heavenly places. is this to be true , for many of the churches are teaching that once the saints are raptured out then the evil one comes, many believe its the holy spirit , what do you say brothers and sisters, and if so why would jesus state the end would not come until the apostacy and the abomination of desolation is seen first, then run, why are we running to the hills ? so this is another reason I believe if we are to see these things in our generation by the buddy of the fig tree, then we cannot be taken out for there is a 42 month period where satan is allowed to overcome the saints in revelation, so this ties into the tribulation of the saints, what do you all say, I am open for if any other interpretations, thank you everyone for your help.As usual, the ministry of the Holy Spirit and God's intentions on the manipulations of history in the End Times is misunderstood.The Holy Spirit will NEVER be withdrawn from the world. Get that straight from the beginning of the argument. Never means never.Therefore something else is meant by a withdrawal of restraint.The passage of 2 Thess. mentioned above is generally assumed to refer to the Great Apostasy - the falling away of men from the faith. By extension, this is assumed to mean the Church. In fact, we see this very thing happening across the globe. The church has cut itself off from its root - from Christ and the Word of God. Because of this it is withering on the vine.The removal of divine restraint may suggest God is abandoning hedonistic culture. It may mean that the Jewish canary is sick.Jewish culture teaches that it is the canary of God. Coal miners once took canaries down into the mines to detect toxic gases. If the canary sang, the air was sweet to breathe. If the canary got sick, it was time for the miners to retire. If the canary died, the air was foul and all men fled the mines. Jews say that attitudes toward the State of Israel and Jews in particular are like the canary. If Israel is respected among nations and if Jews are treated as equals, the canary is healthy. As intolerance of Israel and anti-semitism grows the canary is said to be sickening.As a nation withdraws from God, it also withdraws from Israel. As a nation rejects God, it's people also reject Jews. The canary becomes sick.When nations and people turn their backs upon God - God withdraws His blessing from them.Divine restraint is withdrawn..........hell visits the earth and its people. Consider that in all of history no nation has ever been targeted for destruction as is Israel. Will the God of Israel let the canary die?and that's me, hollering from the choir loft... Edited August 23, 2015 by rjp34652 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonseeahray Posted August 23, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 40 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/27/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1942 Share Posted August 23, 2015 The book of Revelation was written to the seven Churches of Asia and NOT TO US. So in order to understand this book we have to look at it through their eyes. The only way you can do this is by knowing history. These mostly Gentile believers were mostly illiterate, uneducated simple working people many of them were slaves. So the real message of John had to be very simple and relevant to their time. The only consideration is that the SECOND COMING has been delayed and has slid into our time - Nothing else has. This book ends historically with the final judgment of Rome the literal city and its foul, corrupt, and evil ruler ship. The city split into three parts in 395AD when part of the government moved to Milan (and then Ravenna) and the third part moved to Constantinople. The final judgment came in 410Ad when Alaric the Visigoth sacked the city. It never recovered after that. That is the end (The final 7th bowl of wrath) of the historical book of Revelation. All that remains is the last couple chapters concerning the Second coming and the events surrounding it..If the people were simple and illiterate then why did John write it? Just sayin'-RevI doubt very much if the illiterate Gentile members of the Church understood the symbolically coded message of John. But the leadership did. You really had to have an understanding of the Old Testament, Jewish history, and temple practices to understand his book. But if you only had one person of this caliber in your assembly he could explain it to the others. John was in exile and the Christians were rejected and hated. They were considered disloyal to the empire and so John wrote his book which was negative toward Rome using symbols. Any person who knew what the symbols meant could decode the book. It was very important that the Romans not discover the real message of John because it would have been seen as subversive and would bring on the Christians even more grief. One of the main messages of Revelation was that the second persecution was about to take place under Domitian. The first of course was under Nero. John alludes to the persecution and time of Nero many times in the Revelation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted August 23, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2015 I only have one "extremely long post that don't address the topic at all," but as you can see I was only following the flow of conversation. Is there a rule or something that says a new thread must be started when people on the thread respond to something on topic is said on the original one? I for one enjoy the liberty people have to ask and address side topics, happens all the time in real life. My comment was not directed at you specifically, Seeker. Don't get all sideways. There really isn't a 'rule' about going OT but it's just common courtesy to not hijack someone's thread with other topics. I sometimes do exactly that myself and have to rein myself in. Or I get told I'm OT. Don't take it personally; you're far from the worst offender. Trust me, I was chuckling when I wrote the post... and I avoid getting all sideways because I do look thinner straight on. Oh; I didn't realize you were joking, duh! Sometimes I'm a little dense when it comes to rhetoric. And it facing the world head on will make one look thinner I'm going for it! Oh the pains of middle age and fighting the spread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted August 30, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted August 30, 2015 hello everyone, I have for years believed that the restrainer ,the one that holds back the evil one is the holy spirit , and we are filled with the holy spirit so once the believers were removed from the worldly scene then the evil one would come and tribulation would start, but I have done some study, and I believe that the Restrainer is the arch angel Micheal, as spoken of 2 Thessalonians 2;3-8 and in Daniel 12 the time of the end when he stands, and this brings us to why it is said we don't wrestle with flesh and blood but the powers of darkness and principalities in heavenly places. is this to be true , for many of the churches are teaching that once the saints are ruptured out then the evil one comes, many believe its the holy spirit , what do you say brothers and sisters, and if so why would Jesus state the end would not come until the apostasy and the abomination of desolation is seen first, then run, why are we running to the hills ? so this is another reason I believe if we are to see these things in our generation by the buddy of the fig tree, then we cannot be taken out for there is a 42 month period where satan is allowed to overcome the saints in revelation, so this ties into the tribulation of the saints, what do you all say, I am open for if any other interpretations, thank you everyone for your help. I think first of course God but than anyone who knows who the Antichrist is and has some power be it merely political or spiritual and political. At some point it will become clear to Christians who this politician is and I am afraid at that point he will come to action. I think partially he already did. I think it is already clear Russia is lead to aggression by Putin and KGBs around him, they are atheistic and even anti-religious despite what they say on TV. Beloved “O Lord, according to all your righteous acts, let your anger and your wrath turn away from your city Jerusalem, your holy hill, because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and your people have become a byword among all who are around us. Now therefore, O our God, listen to the prayer of your servant and to his pleas for mercy, and for your own sake, O Lord, make your face to shine upon your sanctuary, which is desolate. O my God, incline your ear and hear. Open your eyes and see our desolations, and the city that is called by your name. For we do not present our pleas before you because of our righteousness, but because of your great mercy. O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive. O Lord, pay attention and act. Delay not, for your own sake, O my God, because your city and your people are called by your name.” Daniel 9:16-19 (English Standard Version) Ever Wonder Why While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my plea before the Lord my God for the holy hill of my God, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the first, came to me in swift flight at the time of the evening sacrifice. He made me understand, speaking with me and saying, “O Daniel, I have now come out to give you insight and understanding. At the beginning of your pleas for mercy a word went out, and I have come to tell it to you, for you are greatly loved. Therefore consider the word and understand the vision. Daniel 9:20-23 (English Standard Version) God Would Allow Such “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.” Daniel 9:24-27 (English Standard Version) A Thing I will go away and return to My place Until they acknowledge their guilt and seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me. Hosea 5:15 (New American Standard Bible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeinChrist Posted September 2, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 192 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 635 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/29/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2015 hello everyone, I have for years believed that the restrainer ,the one that holds back the evil one is the holy spirit , and we are filled with the holy spirit so once the believers were removed from the worldly scene then the evil one would come and tribulation would start, but I have done some study, and I believe that the Restrainer is the arch angel Micheal, as spoken of 2 Thessalonians 2;3-8 and in Daniel 12 the time of the end when he stands, and this brings us to why it is said we don't wrestle with flesh and blood but the powers of darkness and principalities in heavenly places. is this to be true , for many of the churches are teaching that once the saints are ruptured out then the evil one comes, many believe its the holy spirit , what do you say brothers and sisters, and if so why would Jesus state the end would not come until the apostasy and the abomination of desolation is seen first, then run, why are we running to the hills ? so this is another reason I believe if we are to see these things in our generation by the buddy of the fig tree, then we cannot be taken out for there is a 42 month period where satan is allowed to overcome the saints in revelation, so this ties into the tribulation of the saints, what do you all say, I am open for if any other interpretations, thank you everyone for your help. I think first of course God but than anyone who knows who the Antichrist is and has some power be it merely political or spiritual and political. At some point it will become clear to Christians who this politician is and I am afraid at that point he will come to action. I think partially he already did. I think it is already clear Russia is lead to aggression by Putin and KGBs around him, they are atheistic and even anti-religious despite what they say on TV. Beloved “O Lord, according to all your righteous acts, let your anger and your wrath turn away from your city Jerusalem, your holy hill, because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and your people have become a byword among all who are around us. Now therefore, O our God, listen to the prayer of your servant and to his pleas for mercy, and for your own sake, O Lord, make your face to shine upon your sanctuary, which is desolate. O my God, incline your ear and hear. Open your eyes and see our desolations, and the city that is called by your name. For we do not present our pleas before you because of our righteousness, but because of your great mercy. O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive. O Lord, pay attention and act. Delay not, for your own sake, O my God, because your city and your people are called by your name.” Daniel 9:16-19 (English Standard Version) Ever Wonder Why While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my plea before the Lord my God for the holy hill of my God, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the first, came to me in swift flight at the time of the evening sacrifice. He made me understand, speaking with me and saying, “O Daniel, I have now come out to give you insight and understanding. At the beginning of your pleas for mercy a word went out, and I have come to tell it to you, for you are greatly loved. Therefore consider the word and understand the vision. Daniel 9:20-23 (English Standard Version) God Would Allow Such “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.” Daniel 9:24-27 (English Standard Version) A Thing I will go away and return to My place Until they acknowledge their guilt and seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me. Hosea 5:15 (New American Standard Bible) hello everyone, I have for years believed that the restrainer ,the one that holds back the evil one is the holy spirit , and we are filled with the holy spirit so once the believers were removed from the worldly scene then the evil one would come and tribulation would start, but I have done some study, and I believe that the Restrainer is the arch angel Micheal, as spoken of 2 Thessalonians 2;3-8 and in Daniel 12 the time of the end when he stands, and this brings us to why it is said we don't wrestle with flesh and blood but the powers of darkness and principalities in heavenly places. is this to be true , for many of the churches are teaching that once the saints are ruptured out then the evil one comes, many believe its the holy spirit , what do you say brothers and sisters, and if so why would Jesus state the end would not come until the apostasy and the abomination of desolation is seen first, then run, why are we running to the hills ? so this is another reason I believe if we are to see these things in our generation by the buddy of the fig tree, then we cannot be taken out for there is a 42 month period where satan is allowed to overcome the saints in revelation, so this ties into the tribulation of the saints, what do you all say, I am open for if any other interpretations, thank you everyone for your help. I think first of course God but than anyone who knows who the Antichrist is and has some power be it merely political or spiritual and political. At some point it will become clear to Christians who this politician is and I am afraid at that point he will come to action. I think partially he already did. I think it is already clear Russia is lead to aggression by Putin and KGBs around him, they are atheistic and even anti-religious despite what they say on TV. Beloved “O Lord, according to all your righteous acts, let your anger and your wrath turn away from your city Jerusalem, your holy hill, because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and your people have become a byword among all who are around us. Now therefore, O our God, listen to the prayer of your servant and to his pleas for mercy, and for your own sake, O Lord, make your face to shine upon your sanctuary, which is desolate. O my God, incline your ear and hear. Open your eyes and see our desolations, and the city that is called by your name. For we do not present our pleas before you because of our righteousness, but because of your great mercy. O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive. O Lord, pay attention and act. Delay not, for your own sake, O my God, because your city and your people are called by your name.” Daniel 9:16-19 (English Standard Version) Ever Wonder Why While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my plea before the Lord my God for the holy hill of my God, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the first, came to me in swift flight at the time of the evening sacrifice. He made me understand, speaking with me and saying, “O Daniel, I have now come out to give you insight and understanding. At the beginning of your pleas for mercy a word went out, and I have come to tell it to you, for you are greatly loved. Therefore consider the word and understand the vision. Daniel 9:20-23 (English Standard Version) God Would Allow Such “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.” Daniel 9:24-27 (English Standard Version) A Thing I will go away and return to My place Until they acknowledge their guilt and seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me. Hosea 5:15 (New American Standard Bible) So Joè are you saying the Jews.unbelief is the Restainter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted September 2, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted September 2, 2015 So Joè are you saying the Jews unbelief is the Restrainer? Beloved, Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-11 (ESV) You Are Way They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. “And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” Luke 21:24-27 (ESV) Too Fast For I will return again to my place, until they acknowledge their guilt and seek my face, and in their distress earnestly seek me. Hosea 5:15 (ESV) Me Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? Romans 11:13-15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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