Who or what is the two witnesses of god in the end times?

[Reinitin]

50 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

 

I am just wondering why you jump to that conclusion from the verses quoted?  Sure its Zerubbabel who has the vision, and he is the faithful rebuilder of the temple after it's destruction. He is commended for that by the angel. 

The two olive trees are not explained clearly to Zerubbabel even though he asks twice, he is told they are the two anointed ones.    He is not told "you Zerubbabel are one of those olive trees". I don't see that hinted at in the text. it got changed to 2 anointed ones but the angel is telling Him it's the sons of oil 

 

 

If I say "Son's of Thunder" who am i talking about? Jesus gave james and john that name and they are still known by it. He gave Zerubbabel and Joshua a name too, "Sons of Oil" and Zach 4 uses the name God gave them.

[Ezra]

9 hours ago, n2thelight said:

So again the Church and Israel,cannot be seperated...

If God views the Church as being separate from redeemed and restored Israel in the future, that should be sufficient for us.  The Church will NOT occupy the land of Israel as given in the Abrahamic Covenant. The eternal home of the Church is the New Jerusalem which is always called "the heavenly city".

[Reinitin]

If I say "Son's of thunder" do you know I'm referring to the name Jesus have james and John? If I say "Sons of oil" I know I'm referring to Zerubbabel and Joshua, God gave them that name and they were known by it.

[ARGOSY]

7 hours ago, Reinitin said:

Because the two olive tree's are Zerubbabel and Joshua. King and Priest; 14. anointed ones—literally, "sons of oil" (Isa 5:1, Margin). Joshua the high priest, and Zerubbabel the civil ruler, must first be anointed with grace themselves, so as to be the instruments of furnishing it to others (compare 1Jo 2:20, 27). And  9 “Zerubbabel’s hands have laid the foundation of this house, and his hands will complete it (a civil ruler?). The two anointed ones; literally, the two sons of oil; so the Revised Version; Vulgate, filii olei; Septuagint, υἱοὶ τῆς πιότητος, "sons of fatness" (comp.Isaiah 5:1). By them are intended the two powers, the regal and the sacerdotal, through which God's help and protection are dispensed to the theocracy. Oil was used in appointing to both these offices (comp. Leviticus 21:10; 1 Samuel 10:1). 

Of course you can see Christ the anointed One, Christ's offices of King and Priest were shadowed forth by them. From the union of these two offices in his person, both God and man, the fullness of grace is received and imparted. They built the temple, the church of God. So does Christ spiritually. Christ is not only the Messiah, the Anointed One himself, but he is the Good Olive to his church; and from his fulness we receive. And the Holy Spirit is the unction or anointing which we have received. From Christ the Olive Tree, by the Spirit the Olive Branch, all the golden oil of grace flows to believers, which keeps their lamps burning.

But if you want to make it 2 literal men It is obvious that the 2 olive trees are Zerubbabel and Joshua. They led Israel out of babylonian captivity.  I'm sure you know how they kept Gods promises to His people.

You refer to Isa 5:!, I don't see the link or the names Zerubbabel or Joshua mentioned then.  I'm just not seeing the link you are claiming.  Zerubbabel sees the vision about the lampstand and olive trees. Just because he sees the vision, does not mean he is the actual subject of the symbols in the vision.

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, ARGOSY said:

You refer to Isa 5:!, I don't see the link or the names Zerubbabel or Joshua mentioned then.  I'm just not seeing the link you are claiming.  Zerubbabel sees the vision about the lampstand and olive trees. Just because he sees the vision, does not mean he is the actual subject of the symbols in the vision.

I don't understand why people think its refering to anyone else. All bibles put their names in the foot notes. I think zach is talking about Joshua and Zerubbabel but they are shadows of Christ. I think  rev 4:14 I am stronger convinced it's Christ and the Holy Spirit. The Son was to be sent by the Father, and so was the Holy Ghost. And they stand by him, ready to go. But if people think its not Christ and the olive trees then it is referring too Joshua and Zerubbabel. 

 

[n2thelight]

13 hours ago, Ezra said:

If God views the Church as being separate from redeemed and restored Israel in the future, that should be sufficient for us.  The Church will NOT occupy the land of Israel as given in the Abrahamic Covenant. The eternal home of the Church is the New Jerusalem which is always called "the heavenly city".

Israel who are the Christian nations,by the way the most blessed nations the world has ever seen,(as prophecised)with the USA at the top.; again ,has always been the Church,true Judah(not the fakes)are the Church as well...

Acts 7:38 "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the Angel Which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our father: who received the lively oracles to give unto us."

 

Genesis 35:11 "And God said unto him, "I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;"

When we study Genesis 48 we will see that each of his sons will become Patriarchs of their own tribes, which develop into nations and groupings of nations. This promise reaches far beyond what the church world today would have us believe; that the offspring of Jacob today is comprised in the tiny nation of Israel, with brother Judah, mixed with the Kenite population towering over them. Those who call themselves Jews, but are not, see Revelation 2:9, and 3:9, for the warning that Jesus told John to write to our end time generation.

The kings of England today are even crowned and anointed over the same pillar that Jacob anointed to God, to call an eternal remembrance to all those who sit on that throne, and the subjects that they rule over. [The people of republics are citizens, while people under a king or queen are subjects.] All royal thrones of the Christian nations are tied directly by blood to the throne of England, which is the direct linage to King David, Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham. It is no accident that the Queen of England is Elizabeth II, for her lineage dictates it.

God's word, and his house still exist today, and the mere fact that a King or Queen sits on the throne is the reminder to all His children that He does keep his word, even though we allow ourselves to get lazy in his word, and run to Kenites for its interpretation, His word is truth, honest and fixed. When it seems that God's word is wrong, it is the person questioning the word that is in error. That is why we must use the right tools in getting the correct meaning for that Word.

The first duty of any King or Queen is to be the protector of the Faith, and that faith is God's Word. That is why we have the King James Bible today. He made the order for this translation, whereby each subject to his throne could have their own copy within their homes, that their lives could be guided by its words. From the year 1611 A.D. it has continued to be the guidepost in most Christian homes, and governments.

 

The full house(Judah and Israel)will be joined back,at the return of Christ

[SINNERSAVED]

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 10:16 PM, n2thelight said:

Now we need to understand who Israel is....What were the promises made to Jacob?If one were to look,they would see the fulfillment in the Christian nations of today...

So again the Church and Israel,cannot be seperated...

this is true, ,

 for everyone, is not seeing that the two that was is actually scattered far more then ever , and that the Gentiles today are a major part of the two, the converted, and the spirit filled,and the original branches  and I believe even though it is to be focused on Israel as prophecy has given us to watch, Israel is under judgment, today,even though not all of Israel is of the true following, and that it will be of a small remnant from there , and many that are in the land, are not of the true and living God,

and so of the Gentile, or = nations other then the nation of israel, there is the twelve tribes I believe that the 144,000 will come out of, and then the nations of the redeemed , all that call on the name and believe shall be saved, for this is the promise given, to all that also believe and places there faith in, for God will not turn His back on anyone that is seeking Him, for God is a just God,

 and all of the events ,will end as the enemy surrounds Israel and Yashua comes with His angels and the brightness of His coming, and destroys , the evil once and for all, this is what I see in scripture as it is to unfold,

blessings and peace

[n2thelight]

11 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

this is true, ,

 for everyone, is not seeing that the two that was is actually scattered far more then ever , and that the Gentiles today are a major part of the two, the converted, and the spirit filled,and the original branches  and I believe even though it is to be focused on Israel as prophecy has given us to watch, Israel is under judgment, today,even though not all of Israel is of the true following, and that it will be of a small remnant from there , and many that are in the land, are not of the true and living God,

and so of the Gentile, or = nations other then the nation of israel, there is the twelve tribes I believe that the 144,000 will come out of, and then the nations of the redeemed , all that call on the name and believe shall be saved, for this is the promise given, to all that also believe and places there faith in, for God will not turn His back on anyone that is seeking Him, for God is a just God,

 and all of the events ,will end as the enemy surrounds Israel and Yashua comes with His angels and the brightness of His coming, and destroys , the evil once and for all, this is what I see in scripture as it is to unfold,

blessings and peace

Exactly.the entire Word of God focuses on Israel,ALL TWELVE),and the nations that come in contact with them.Is it not the Christian nations who spread His Word?

Most don't know the meaning of Gentile,in scripture as well

Without this understanding,every other thing can be off

 

[Paradigm]

I've been interested in this topic for a while. I did a two part presentation on this topic a couple of years ago. You can hear the audio here: http://www.yeshuacast.com/paradigm-radio/the-two-witnesses-the-ministry-of-moses-and-elijah-keith-murray

In essence, the ministry of the Two Witnesses has been around since the beginning of the world and can be seen from Gen-Rev. It is tied in directly with a number of topics such as the Ark of the Covenant. I explain in the presentation that we are actually seeing the ark throughout much of the scripture including the NT. We see this for example on the Mount of Transfiguration. I discuss what day I believe that is occurring and what and where we are seeing into.

 

[JG Hemlock]

You are correct about the Two Witnesses being Elijah and Moses. The Law of the Prophets (Elijah) and the Law of the Torah (Moses). You are also correct about the transfiguration. History will repeat itself again in the bible. These Two Witnesses will have the "Golden Oil" anointing-the transfiguration! Yes! Yeshua told me this!

I have been given much revelation about the Two Witnesses by Yeshua. People have asked me why I believe on Yeshua so strongly and they ask what Christians brought me to my salvation. No Christian brought me to salvation. The Lord's presence has came to me and He brought me close to Him. I had no knowledge of any scripture. NONE! He began giving me dreams and visions and then I would wake up and He would take me to the very scripture! Amazing!

I always say to people when they mock me..."How do you explain that I know these things? How do you explain that I have visions and then I find them in the bible though I have never read scripture? The Bible is Holy and it is true and I know that without a doubt. I have even had visions of Jewish things that I knew nothing about. How do you explain that?" They call me a liar when I speak the truth. They call me a demon. Go figure. I thought that they would be happy to know that Yeshua was alive but they are not. They deny His power. 

I believe on Yeshua because it is Him and He is amazing!  I have seen many people saved because of these miracles that He does. I have no proper word to explain any of it because it is not glorious enough to explain the Lord.

I was just sinning and going about my business when these spiritual things started happening to me years ago. I did not know why He would pick somebody like me. I do not.  Nobody that knows me can understand what has happened to me due to these spiritual things and they abandoned me because of them. I do not care what they think because I know that Jesus is alive! I  only need Him. I need no other- only Him.  I am not a believer. I am a "Knower." I think that Yeshua is Fabulous and spectacular!  He has given me visions and dreams and one of the gifts is prophecy to help the church. I surely don't know why he called me for a position of prophet, I only know that He did. I feel weird even typing that. I am indeed not self anointed or self appointed or delusional or proclaiming myself. I am proclaiming the good news that Yeshua is ALIVE and He truly is!

I had assumed He would have picked somebody holy and someone who knew scripture and who was following Him? Years ago I did not understand His ways. I am only beginning to understand. My human mind does not have the capacity to understand the greatness of our Lord. He has been teaching me and revealing revelation. Throughout the years I have acknowledged and I learned that He does the anointing and the appointing and the equipping for His positions. It is not of our choosing. Amazing! I was not following Him when He called for me years ago. Because this has happened to me and it is so mind blowing amazing, I know that we are surely in the End Times.  He has spoken much to me about the Two Anointed ones through visions and dreams. They are here on earth but hidden at this time. 

I am a Christian writer because Yeshua has told me to write-and to continue speaking - warning -and repeating what He tells me to say-I obey. I will leave you a link to the prophecies that Yeshua has revealed to me about the Two Witnesses if you are interested. Far too much to repeat here. I have probably said too much as it is. Shalom, JG