Is paradise and Heaven the same?

[Sister]

 

Romans 8:15   For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

  Romans 8:23   And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 Romans 9:4   Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
 Romans 9:6   Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
 Romans 9:7   Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
 Romans 9:8   That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


  Ephesians 1:5   Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

[Sister]

Question: "What is paradise? Is it different than Heaven?"

Answer: Paradise is a place of blessing where the righteous go after death. The word paradise is usually used as a synonym for “heaven” (Revelation 2:7). 

When Jesus was dying on the cross and one of the thieves being crucified with Him asked Him for mercy, Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). Jesus knew that His death was imminent and that He would soon be in heaven with His Father. Therefore, Jesus used “paradise” as a synonym for “heaven.” The apostle Paul wrote of someone (probably himself) who “was caught up to paradise” (2 Corinthians 12:4). In this context, paradise obviously refers to heaven.

There has always been a separation of believers and unbelievers after death (Luke 16:19-31). The righteous have always gone to paradise; the wicked have always gone to hell. For right now, both paradise and hell are “temporary holding places” until the day when Jesus Christ comes back to judge the world based on whether or not individuals have believed in Him. The first resurrection is of believers who will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ to receive rewards based on meritorious service to Him. The second resurrection will be that of unbelievers who will stand before the Great White Throne Judgment of God. At that point, all will be sent to their eternal destination—the wicked to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15), and the righteous to a new heaven and a new earth (Revelation 21—22).

There are cases in which paradise can refer to the Garden of Eden, such in the Douay-Rheims translation ofGenesis 3:8, which speaks of Adam and Eve hiding “amidst the trees of paradise.” The context of the word will determine whether it refers to heaven or Eden.

http://www.gotquestions.org/paradise.html

This is a good example of what the 144,000 are NOT doing.  They are not feeding themselves on the doctrines of men, (Religion/Women).

A whole new doctrine emerges out of a parable....an example.  The example in this parable is once the door is shut, you cannot cross over to the other side.  Bad teachings arise because of misunderstanding, therefore blocking the sheep to the truth.  What we have now is a spiritual desolation amongst the Christian land, ..a land so dry and thirsty that nothing can grow out of it.   This is the falling away.  If we trust in these doctrines of men we will be swept away in the flood.

No one has been to "paradise" because "paradise" has not arrived yet. The millennium has not started. Holy Jerusalem will transform baron Israel into a well watered garden where there is truth.  Her desolate places will become a fruitful field.  The blessings of the Lord will provide a peaceful dwelling place for them and this kingdom area will become like Eden again, ..paradise. 

There will be Jews who will not be chosen as remnants as it is only according to the "election of grace".  The remnants of Israel are hand picked by God himself.  There will be many Jews who will dwell outside the kingdom at the start of the millennium, begging to come in and will not be permitted.  This is where there will be gnashing of the teeth.  Sorrow and agony where they have missed out.  This is their "torture", it is a spiritual one. This parable is for the Jews, and for us to learn also.  All Jews are expecting to have their inheritance with Abraham, but some will be sorely disappointed they were not chosen, for God sees inside the heart.  These ones who missed out are most likely the rich who have had all the nice things in life by oppressing others.  Ie. the bankers, ..the elites which control everything, and sacrificed their people for self gain.

Luke 13:28   There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

 

[Ezra]

Just spoke to a Jehovah's witness and he said that when Christians die they go to paradise (which is the new earth).  That people who died before Jesus came would also be there- Abraham , John the baptist etc.

144,000 of chosen people would go to heaven.

First of all, if you are not solidly grounded in Scripture, avoid having any discussions with Jehovah's Witnesses. You just have to study Revelation chapters 7 and 14 to understand clearly that the 144,000 are redeemed Jews (12,000 from each of 12 tribes). That tells you right away that the JWs have no clue since they reject true Bible doctrine.

Back to your question. "Heaven" = the third heaven = the place of God's throne.

The New Jerusalem is a cubic heavenly city, presently in Heaven, but which will descend out of Heaven and hover over the earth in the future.  This is the eternal home of all the saints.

Paradise is now located in the New Jerusalem. When Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in Paradise, that would be the same as saying that he would be in Heaven.  Christ took all the Old Testament saints from "Abraham's Bosom" (which was located in the heart of the earth) to the New Jerusalem, and that is where this converted thief went. ALL Christians who die go to Heaven, since they go to be with Christ, who is seated at the right hand of the Father.

[TSDBB]

 

 

No one has been to "paradise" because "paradise" has not arrived yet. The millennium has not started. Holy Jerusalem will transform baron Israel into a well watered garden where there is truth.  Her desolate places will become a fruitful field.  The blessings of the Lord will provide a peaceful dwelling place for them and this kingdom area will become like Eden again, ..paradise. 

 

I'm a little confused by your replies Sister sorry.

[Sister]

TSDBB

Thats ok you are not the only one

When Christ returns he will bind Satan and put him in prison so that he cannot deceive the nations no more for a thousand years.  Christ will set up the kingdom of God on earth and will rule with his resurrected saints for one thousand years.  The kingdom will be set up in Israel and her borders will be widened.  This is where Christ will rule from for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:2   And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,  

Revelation 20:3   And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

Isaiah 2:3   And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
 

 

[Qnts2]

 

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

⁵ from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, ⁶ from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, ⁷ from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, ⁸ from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

QNTS2

There are no tribes today.  

 Psalms 2:8   Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

 Proverbs 17:2   A wise servant shall have rule over a son that causeth shame, and shall have part of the inheritance among the brethren.

 Ezekiel 47:22   And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.

Acts 20:32   And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

  Colossians 1:12   Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

 Matthew 21:31   Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
 

I am somewhat amused. Yes, there are still tribes today. God who inspired all of scripture mentions the tribes of Israel in Revelation. He doesn't make mistakes.

[TSDBB]

I find the old translations of the Bible quite difficult to understand so I don't think that helps when I'm trying to comprehend the quotes given :-)

I've not studied revelation as I've always found it very difficult, which is no excuse really.  I know there are differences of opinion but are you saying that when Jesus returns that he will rule for 1,000 years on earth and that christians that are alive will live here with non christians?  If that's the case why wouldn't everyone turn to Jesus in those times and not perish?

What about those that have died already, I guess they would be Heaven already?

People who died before Jesus came would already be in Heaven?

Paradise and Heaven are the same place?

Edited September 9, 2015 by TSDBB

[Sister]

 

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

⁵ from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, ⁶ from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, ⁷ from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, ⁸ from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

QNTS2

There are no tribes today.  

 Psalms 2:8   Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

 Proverbs 17:2   A wise servant shall have rule over a son that causeth shame, and shall have part of the inheritance among the brethren.

 Ezekiel 47:22   And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.

Acts 20:32   And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

  Colossians 1:12   Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

 Matthew 21:31   Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
 

I am somewhat amused. Yes, there are still tribes today. God who inspired all of scripture mentions the tribes of Israel in Revelation. He doesn't make mistakes.

QNTS2

No God does not make mistakes, but we can do if we do not put all the scriptures together and get a clear picture without contradictions.

  Matthew 21:43   Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

  Luke 3:8   Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

 

[Sister]

 

Deuteronomy 32:21   They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

How will Israel be provoked to jealousy if the first fruits are of them..... Israel? 

The 144,000 are numbered out of the 12 tribes of Israel, ... they will be the first to inherit what was supposed to be given to Israel.  If they have Israel's portion then they are also called Israel, because they will stand for Israel.

The 144,000 are chosen because they have followed the Lamb, the tribes will be under them during the millennium.  12,000 teachers who have followed the Lamb for each tribe.

 

Can you please read this parable again and see what God is trying to show us;

 Mark 12:2   And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard.
 Mark 12:3   And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.
 Mark 12:4   And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled.
 Mark 12:5   And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some.
 Mark 12:6   Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.
 Mark 12:7   But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.
 Mark 12:8   And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.
 Mark 12:9   What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.

Israel will receive their inheritance, but not first. 

Matthew 19:30   But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Read the letters to the seven churches....he who overcomes.  I have no doubt whatsoever that these are those who will be the firstfruits.  It does not say that to qualify you have to be of Israel, but for anyone who serves Christ and does all he commands.  The Christian world is waiting for a "rapture", and because there are only 144,000 sealed and taken up first, before the tribulation, it has to be these.

[Sister]

I find the old translations of the Bible quite difficult to understand so I don't think that helps when I'm trying to comprehend the quotes given :-)

I've not studied revelation as I've always found it very difficult, which is no excuse really.  I know there are differences of opinion but are you saying that when Jesus returns that he will rule for 1,000 years on earth and that christians that are alive will live here with non christians?  If that's the case why wouldn't everyone turn to Jesus in those times and not perish?

What about those that have died already, I guess they would be Heaven already?

People who died before Jesus came would already be in Heaven?

Paradise and Heaven are the same place?

TSDBB

Yes I am saying that when Jesus returns he will rule on earth for a thousand years.  The Christians will be the "resurrected saints", and they will do the teaching.

Most will turn to Jesus during the millennium, but after many generations there still exist some people that don't like God's laws.  God will let Satan loose after the 1000 years to draw the wicked to himself to be separated from the good. Satan will use a man called "Gog", and "Magog" is the name of his armies which are the people he has gathered from the 4 corners of the earth.  They will form an army and will only surround the kingdom area to attack, but God will send fire down from heaven to destroy them all.  (rev 20:8)

 

There are only 24 elders in heaven at the moment.  It does not say who they are but it makes sense that the 12 apostles make up half of them.  The rest of the dead know nothing and are still in their graves, but will be raised back to life in a new body when Jesus returns.  This is called the first resurrection and first judgement.

After the 1000 years, there is a second resurrection and judgement.  All those who did not know Christ will be judged by their deeds.  This is a different judgement, and not based on who knew God or not, but according to their heart.  God is fair and will use fair judgement for he sees inside the heart.  All those who came to God during the millennium will be raised in this 2nd resurrection.  So it's a mixed judgement. (Rev 20:12)

Paradise is only a reflection of heaven because of it's teachings.  Paradise is not heaven itself.  Paradise is that kingdom area that Christ will rule from in Jerusalem.  It will be so beautiful inside and peace will dwell there because there is truth.  Nothing can hurt nor destroy in this place which God also calls his holy mountain.  Mountain meaning "kingdom". 

Ezekiel 36:35   And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.