God still loves the Jewish people

[JohnD]

1 minute ago, Joline said:

Honestly not sure John D. All I know is the Levites were not counted among the Isrealites, and received no inheritance with them either. The priesthood, and the tithe, etc were their inheritance.

They had some minuscule land inheritance (been a long time since I studied this, but it's in the Bible). But not enough to sustain them without the tithes etc.

Revelation 7:7 (AV)

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

 

[JohnD]

Just now, Joline said:

Could you elaborate on this JohnD?

Sure.

Philippians 3:1–3 (AV)

1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

 

beware of the concision (Judaizers, legalism, the physical)

the spiritual: we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

 

[JohnD]

Jeremiah 31:31–34 (AV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This is not an exclusion of all else but an inclusion into the house of Israel (i.e. the Spirit House of Israel not the Physical House of Israel).

Observe:

Romans 11:16–26 (AV)

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

All (SPIRIT) Israel will be saved.

John 3:16-18 applies to all, including Jewish born people.

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Sure.

Philippians 3:1–3 (AV)

1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

 

beware of the concision (Judaizers, legalism, the physical)

the spiritual: we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

 

Ok, so what does this say to you? To me it could mean that all born again (of the promises made to Abraham) are the Israel of God. Just as Paul distinguishes himself so also have no confidence in fleshly descent. 

[JohnD]

I realize it's a lot to internalize. The roots of Jewish pride and Gentile antisemitism run much deeper (in ourselves) than most believe or want to face.

But when you see the arguments against this biblical interpretation, you will find no biblical opposition at all... only pride and prejudice keeping them from accepting this plain truth.

By believing in the Jewish Messiah Jesus all who do become Spirit Jews in the Spirit House of Israel. 

[JohnD]

1 minute ago, Joline said:

Ok, so what does this say to you? To me it could mean that all born again (of the promises made to Abraham) are the Israel of God. Just as Paul distinguishes himself so also have no confidence in fleshly descent. 

Spirit Israel. Yes.

[JohnD]

God ordained two kinds of seed to father Abraham.

Genesis 22:17 (AV)

17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

the physical (sand by the seas shore)

the spiritual (stars of heaven)

 

[JohnD]

If the spiritual relationship to the father of faith (Abraham) were a matter of the physical inheritance of his actual bloodline, then there would be complications from the many of his bloodline who are not heirs of the promise (through Ishmael and Esau to name two). Also, what else could this application to the Jewish people mean?

Romans 9:4 (AV)

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Romans 8:13–15 (AV)

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, JohnD said:

If the spiritual relationship to the father of faith (Abraham) were a matter of the physical inheritance of his actual bloodline, then there would be complications from the many of his bloodline who are not heirs of the promise (through Ishmael and Esau to name two). Also, what else could this application to the Jewish people mean?

Romans 9:4 (AV)

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Romans 8:13–15 (AV)

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

 

Ok JohnD, I have put forth similar ideas about Abraham, and really got slammed for it on this site. But I put it in different terms. If you examine the two covenants made in Genesis I think some interesting things can be found. Things which I think the new covenant scriptures support.

First....I see heirs of promise given to Abram concerning this world and this life. Genesis 15.

second.....Heirs of promise in the covenant given to Abraham concerning the next world and the next life. Genesis 17.

What I got slammed for was putting forth the notion that Abraham personally was not given any inheritance in the first  Gen 15. As this covenant specifically tells Abraham he will die, and the covenant is made to his seed, of the 4th generation of his seed.

It was not until the second covenant of Genesis 17 that Abraham was personally promised the land. Therefore Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph all believed their inheritance to come after death to this world and this life, by the resurrection from death in the next life.

[JohnD]

48 minutes ago, Joline said:

Ok JohnD, I have put forth similar ideas about Abraham, and really got slammed for it on this site. But I put it in different terms. If you examine the two covenants made in Genesis I think some interesting things can be found. Things which I think the new covenant scriptures support.

First....I see heirs of promise given to Abram concerning this world and this life. Genesis 15.

second.....Heirs of promise in the covenant given to Abraham concerning the next world and the next life. Genesis 17.

What I got slammed for was putting forth the notion that Abraham personally was not given any inheritance in the first  Gen 15. As this covenant specifically tells Abraham he will die, and the covenant is made to his seed, of the 4th generation of his seed.

It was not until the second covenant of Genesis 17 that Abraham was personally promised the land. Therefore Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph all believed their inheritance to come after death to this world and this life, by the resurrection from death in the next life.

An interesting interpretation. Along the lines of underlying prophecy / mysticism (which when biblically sound is a-okay with God... for example the sign of Jonah [1 Corinthians 15:4 / Matthew 12:39-40] otherwise we would be hard pressed to find the exact phrased scripture in the OT).

The underlying interpretation being the intention of God from the beginning was the spiritual rather than the physical. I agree with this. In fact, I believe the scriptures teach that the physical realm was created for the purpose of riding the spirit realm (and the physical realm) of evil.

Isaiah 14:26 (AV)

26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.

Colossians 1:20 (AV)

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matthew 16:19 (AV)

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The physical heirs of Abraham Isaac and Jacob were tools of God to usher Truth into this fallen world (written and Truth personified) and to mark time prophetically. For this they ate as loved by God today as ever.