Qnts2 Posted March 4, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2016 5 minutes ago, Joline said: Ah, I see now where you are coming from. I am still not understanding on what principal or idea that Jacob, Israel is distinct from the promises made as a seed of Abraham though. Abraham was the father of Ishmael, Isaac, and the people who had the same faith as Abraham. Abraham received a promise of land. That promise went to Isaac. Isaac had two children, Jacob and Esau. The land promise when to Jacob and his descendents. Not Ishmael or the people who were children of Abraham by faith. Also to the children of Jacob/Israel, went the promise of the linage of the Messiah. Also the Mosaic covenant with all of it's promises and curses. Ishmael and Esau did not receive a promise that the Messiah would be born thru their linage, and they did not receive the Mosaic covenant. Ishmael received a blessing. Esau received a blessing. The people of the same faith as Abraham, are counted as children of Abraham, and receive all the blessings thru Jesus of the New Covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, Qnts2 said: Abraham was the father of Ishmael, Isaac, and the people who had the same faith as Abraham. Abraham received a promise of land. That promise went to Isaac. Isaac had two children, Jacob and Esau. The land promise when to Jacob and his descendents. Not Ishmael or the people who were children of Abraham by faith. Also to the children of Jacob/Israel, went the promise of the linage of the Messiah. Also the Mosaic covenant with all of it's promises and curses. Ishmael and Esau did not receive a promise that the Messiah would be born thru their linage, and they did not receive the Mosaic covenant. Ishmael received a blessing. Esau received a blessing. The people of the same faith as Abraham, are counted as children of Abraham, and receive all the blessings thru Jesus of the New Covenant. According to the law, only the ritual physical circumcision are children of Abraham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted March 4, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2016 1 minute ago, Joline said: According to the law, only the ritual physical circumcision are children of Abraham. According to the Mosaic law, only the descendents of Israel who are ritual physical circumcised are counted as children of Israel. A descendent of Jacob/Israel who is not circumcised is cut off from the people. If and when they are circumcised, they are no longer cut off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted March 4, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 904 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,642 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,830 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 3426 יֵשׁ [yesh /yaysh/] subst. Perhaps from an unused root meaning to stand out, or exist; TWOT 921; GK 3780; 133 occurrences; AV translates as “is” 54 times, “be” 28 times, “have” 22 times, “there” 13 times, and translated miscellaneously 16 times. 1 being, existence, substance, there is or are. 1A substance. 1B existence. 1C there is or are. James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995). 8323 שָׂרַר [sarar /saw·rar/] v. A primitive root; TWOT 2295; GK 8606; Five occurrences; AV translates as “rule” three times, “make prince” once, and “altogether” once. 1 to be or act as prince, rule, contend, have power, prevail over, reign, govern. 1A (Qal) to rule over, govern. 1B (Hithpael) to lord it over. James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995). 430 אֱלֹהִים [ʾelohiym /el·o·heem/] n m p. Plural of 433; TWOT 93c; GK 466; 2606 occurrences; AV translates as “God” 2346 times, “god” 244 times, “judge” five times, “GOD” once, “goddess” twice, “great” twice, “mighty” twice, “angels” once, “exceeding” once, “God-ward + 4136” once, and “godly” once. 1 (plural). 1A rulers, judges. 1B divine ones. 1C angels. 1D gods. 2 (plural intensive—singular meaning). 2A god, goddess. 2B godlike one. 2C works or special possessions of God. 2D the (true) God. 2E God. James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995). Yish Sarar Elohiym He is the Prince of God Yisra'el Israel Jacob was called Israel. The Northern Kingdom was called Israel. The modern State is Israel. To say Israel pertains only to Jacob is a false statement. And by the way the ultimate Prince of God is the Ultimate Messiah, by whom we are saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 8 hours ago, Qnts2 said: The seed of Abraham does not make a person Spirit Israel. Abraham was not Israel. Jacob was Israel. Spirtiual seed can be interpreted as spiritual seed of Abraham or Spiritual seed of Jesus, but not Jacob/Israel. There is no spirit Israel in scripture. Israel can be interpreted more than what you say here. Ex 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: So yes Israel is spoken of as "SPIRITUAL" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted March 6, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 904 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,642 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,830 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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