Creation and an Old Earth - One Possibility

[n2thelight]

23 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Please forgive me my internet provider is having hick-ups and I am some times not able to log on and then if so only for a short time.

Please use this anytime anywhere, and add this if you like;

 

God In His Anger Made The Earth 'Without Form And Void'

 

I don't like the term 'Gap Theory' because it's not a theory. It's best to call it the 'Gap Principle.'

 

Ezekiel 28:13-19 teaches that Lucifer was stripped of his heavenly position, authority and glory when he rebelled against God in seeking equality. Earth became Satan's new home. It is commonly believed (and I disagree) that Satan in his anger and rage destroyed the earth. In fact (and you're about to be amazed), God destroyed the earth in His own anger. Yes, that's right, GOD DESTROYED THE EARTH IN GENESIS 1:1...

Jeremiah 4:23-28, “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.”

Could the Bible be any clearer that God in His anger made the earth without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep? The cities were inhabited by angels. Man had not been created yet. This is when dinosaurs roamed the earth. Argue as one may, these Scriptures plainly evidence why the earth was without form and void in Genesis 1:1. In fact, Jeremiah 4:23 even repeats the exact phrase word-for-word. These Scriptures cannot be ignored if one is to be an honest Bible student.

Carefully notice that Lucifer dwelt upon the earth prior to his rebellion. Isaiah 14:14, “I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.” Lucifer's sin was wanting EQUALITY with God. This is the same sin of feminists today, who want to be EQUAL with male authority in marriage, home, church and society. God has ordained masculine authority in the humanity. Women are equal in worth, intelligence and importance to God; but the man is to lead, not the woman.

When Lucifer sinned, he wasn't punished by God. We know that Lucifer wasn't banned from Heaven because Satan appears before God in Job 1:6-7. Satan will be judged, convicted and punished at The Great White Throne Of Judgment with the rest of the wicked (Revelation 20:11-15). Satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna - Hell) forever to burn and be tormented night and day without rest. 2nd Peter 2:4 also tells us that the angels bound in Hell are RESERVED unto judgment. So neither the Devil nor the demons have been punished yet for their wickedness.

Those who believe in a Young Earth vehemently reject the idea that there's a Gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2; but as you've just read, God destroyed the cities of the earth and made the land desolate. Light ceased to shine (the sun, moon and stars were blocked out by God). The mountains trembled and moved. The earth had been a fruitful wilderness where dinosaurs and prehistoric birds and mammals lived. But God became angry for some reason (which is not specified).

I believe the answer is clear in consideration of Isaiah 14:14. Lucifer rebelled against God, drawing one-third of the angels with him to rebel, and it angered the Lord greatly. “The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.”

 

Where the heavens black during Noah’s flood?

 

No they were not.  The only logical, reasonable Biblical answer is found in Genesis 1:1 where we are told that darkness was upon the face of the deep.

 

  Jeremiah 4:23, I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

    V 24, I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

    V 25, I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

    V 26, I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

   V  27, For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

    V 28, For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

 

The heavens above were never BLACK and had no light during Noah’s flood? During Noahs flood there was day and night throughout the entire time. Noah and His family were saved, so all mankind was not destroyed, birds were in the ark and Noah released one to find dry land, the mountains are never mentioned as trembling and the hills moving before or even during Noahs flood?

 

God in fact turned the mountains upside down during Lucifers flood hence the sea shells and other marine fossils like fish and other sea creatures found these day on the highest mountain peaks.

 

At the same time these days,  I have personally seen fossils of petrified tree's and leaves and shells hundreds of feet deep under hundreds of feet thick solid, I mean rock that was so hard we had to drill and blast it to uncover the coal rock in coal mines I have worked in! 

 

Young Earth advocates want you to disregard the Hebrew and other Scriptures that expose their philosophy. They surely do not want you to be aware of the marking in the Masoretic Text at the end of Genesis 1:1, indicating the proper translation of the disjunctive “BUT” instead of the conjunctive (or connecting) “AND.” In the manuscript the reading would be:

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. BUT (Hebrew “waw”) the earth was (became) without form, and void;”

“Was.” The Hebrew for “was” is “hayah.” It is important to distinguish whether the verb “was” is in the manuscript, or if it has been inserted by the translators. It is wonderful that the King James translators made this distinction. When “was” appears not italicized, that indicates it is in the Masoretic Text. When you see “was” italicized, it indicates it does not appear in the manuscripts, but is understood. This is very important to notice when reading your King James Translation which makes this distinction. In Genesis 1:2 where the verb “was” appears twice: first, as part of the Masoretic

I gotcha and I already know,I just like the way you presented it....I know God destroyed the earth,and it was'nt Noah's flood,the first time He did...The entire planet became void and without form,because of His anger.....

[coheir]

On 12/14/2015 at 11:32 PM, HAZARD said:

Please forgive me my internet provider is having hick-ups and I am some times not able to log on and then if so only for a short time.

Please use this anytime anywhere, and add this if you like;

 

God In His Anger Made The Earth 'Without Form And Void'

 

I don't like the term 'Gap Theory' because it's not a theory. It's best to call it the 'Gap Principle.'

 

Ezekiel 28:13-19 teaches that Lucifer was stripped of his heavenly position, authority and glory when he rebelled against God in seeking equality. Earth became Satan's new home. It is commonly believed (and I disagree) that Satan in his anger and rage destroyed the earth. In fact (and you're about to be amazed), God destroyed the earth in His own anger. Yes, that's right, GOD DESTROYED THE EARTH IN GENESIS 1:1...

Jeremiah 4:23-28, “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.”

Could the Bible be any clearer that God in His anger made the earth without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep? The cities were inhabited by angels. Man had not been created yet. This is when dinosaurs roamed the earth. Argue as one may, these Scriptures plainly evidence why the earth was without form and void in Genesis 1:1. In fact, Jeremiah 4:23 even repeats the exact phrase word-for-word. These Scriptures cannot be ignored if one is to be an honest Bible student.

Carefully notice that Lucifer dwelt upon the earth prior to his rebellion. Isaiah 14:14, “I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.” Lucifer's sin was wanting EQUALITY with God. This is the same sin of feminists today, who want to be EQUAL with male authority in marriage, home, church and society. God has ordained masculine authority in the humanity. Women are equal in worth, intelligence and importance to God; but the man is to lead, not the woman.

When Lucifer sinned, he wasn't punished by God. We know that Lucifer wasn't banned from Heaven because Satan appears before God in Job 1:6-7. Satan will be judged, convicted and punished at The Great White Throne Of Judgment with the rest of the wicked (Revelation 20:11-15). Satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna - Hell) forever to burn and be tormented night and day without rest. 2nd Peter 2:4 also tells us that the angels bound in Hell are RESERVED unto judgment. So neither the Devil nor the demons have been punished yet for their wickedness.

Those who believe in a Young Earth vehemently reject the idea that there's a Gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2; but as you've just read, God destroyed the cities of the earth and made the land desolate. Light ceased to shine (the sun, moon and stars were blocked out by God). The mountains trembled and moved. The earth had been a fruitful wilderness where dinosaurs and prehistoric birds and mammals lived. But God became angry for some reason (which is not specified).

I believe the answer is clear in consideration of Isaiah 14:14. Lucifer rebelled against God, drawing one-third of the angels with him to rebel, and it angered the Lord greatly. “The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.”

 

Where the heavens black during Noah’s flood?

 

No they were not.  The only logical, reasonable Biblical answer is found in Genesis 1:1 where we are told that darkness was upon the face of the deep.

 

  Jeremiah 4:23, I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

    V 24, I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

    V 25, I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

    V 26, I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

   V  27, For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

    V 28, For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

 

The heavens above were never BLACK and had no light during Noah’s flood? During Noahs flood there was day and night throughout the entire time. Noah and His family were saved, so all mankind was not destroyed, birds were in the ark and Noah released one to find dry land, the mountains are never mentioned as trembling and the hills moving before or even during Noahs flood?

 

God in fact turned the mountains upside down during Lucifers flood hence the sea shells and other marine fossils like fish and other sea creatures found these day on the highest mountain peaks.

 

At the same time these days,  I have personally seen fossils of petrified tree's and leaves and shells hundreds of feet deep under hundreds of feet thick solid, I mean rock that was so hard we had to drill and blast it to uncover the coal rock in coal mines I have worked in! 

 

Young Earth advocates want you to disregard the Hebrew and other Scriptures that expose their philosophy. They surely do not want you to be aware of the marking in the Masoretic Text at the end of Genesis 1:1, indicating the proper translation of the disjunctive “BUT” instead of the conjunctive (or connecting) “AND.” In the manuscript the reading would be:

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. BUT (Hebrew “waw”) the earth was (became) without form, and void;”

“Was.” The Hebrew for “was” is “hayah.” It is important to distinguish whether the verb “was” is in the manuscript, or if it has been inserted by the translators. It is wonderful that the King James translators made this distinction. When “was” appears not italicized, that indicates it is in the Masoretic Text. When you see “was” italicized, it indicates it does not appear in the manuscripts, but is understood. This is very important to notice when reading your King James Translation which makes this distinction. In Genesis 1:2 where the verb “was” appears twice: first, as part of the Masoretic

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

the part I underlined leads me to believe that God created  HIM alone, the rest of the verse could easily have came later. I do not see both at the same time in this verse

[siegi91]

On 12 December 2015 at 4:16 AM, JohnD said:

Okay.

How does any thing exist forever since physicists are so hell bent on no one existing forever?

You say you can make a case for an eternal immutable universe despite the evidence to the contrary.

Why not make the same case for God?

Suppose there really is one. Does his existence when mankind was in its infancy automatically discourage belief in him / his existence as archaic?

 

 

 

Why not make the same case for God? Of course you can make the same case for God. My point here is that there are not known "scientific" ways to prove the logical necessity of God. Even if He existed.  Symmetrically, there is no known "scientific" or philosophical way to prove that God cannot exist, even if He does not exist.

But if there are such ways to prove His existence, I am open to discuss them, anytime. It is still possible that I am overlooking something.

For what concerns your last question. Of course not. An archaic belief can still be true, even without modern scientific support. Being archaic does not entail being wrong. Whoever says the contrary, does not know how logic works. There is no logical sequitur that proves the conclusion wrong (God exists) on the basis of the premises (belief in God is archaic).

Beliefs do not magically lose plausibility by being old.  If a newer belief were more plausible, just by being newer, than an archaic one, then belief in jediism or mormonism would be more plausible than belief in The God of the Bible, which is obviously a ridicolous conclusion.

There are, infact, archaic bleliefs that turned out to be true. To make an example. Some ancient greeks believed that everything was made up of indivisible atoms. They came to that conclusion via pure philosophical speculation, since they did not obviously possess any of the experimental devices we have today.

That was an archaic belief that turned to be found true only pretty recently.

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2015 by siegi91

[Guest shiloh357]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2015 at 0:15 AM, HAZARD said:

 

Ok, forget the gap. Lucifer was a fallen creature when he entered the garden to tempt Adam and Eve. He never began with Adam, he chose the weaker vessel who not only fell for his lies, but she told the first lie as well. She said God said we shall not eat of the fruit, but we must not touch it, which is not what God said.

Genesis 3:2-3,    2, And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3, But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

God actually said;

Genesis 2:16, And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
   

V. 17, But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

God does not create evil, bad things, sinning angels, He never created demons or any other kind of rebel being be they spirit or mortal. So, when Lucifer sinned he drew one third of God's innumerable angels with him. How many were involved, it is not mentioned in Scripture, but we can ask, where did these 200,000,000 demons' released during the tribulation come from?

Revelation 9: 16-17,  And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

V. 17, And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

God never once mentions creating demons, demon horsemen having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone to torment mankind in the future if mankind rebels?

We can, I will conclude they were not created during the six days of the restoration of the Earth to a habitable state for mankind, and before Lucifer, already a fallen creature, entered the garden of Eden, to tempt man, simply because they are not mentioned. They are rebels who rebelled with Lucifer during the Pre-Adamite world. God did not, never did, never will create rebel angels, Satan, who was a perfect creation, until iniquity was found in him, rebels of any kind, let alone demon rebels.

So where do you think these demons of Revelation 9:16-17 came from ??????? 

 

The Bible doesn't tell us where they came from.   I am sure you have assumptions but the truth is that the Bible doesn't tell us and so I am silent where the Bible is silent.

There has never been a restoration of the earth.  That is pure mythology.   There was no pre-Adamite world.  What we know is that when we encountered Satan he was evil.  The Bible mentions nothing about a pre-adamite world.  That is just made up stuff.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 0:01 AM, n2thelight said:

I gotcha and I already know,I just like the way you presented it....I know God destroyed the earth,and it was'nt Noah's flood,the first time He did...The entire planet became void and without form,because of His anger.....

Yes.  I don't feel like I'm the only one knowing the truth anymore.

[n2thelight]

9 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Yes.  I don't feel like I'm the only one knowing the truth anymore.

I know the feeling,but don't mind at all.........

[SavedOnebyGrace]

The first law of thermodynamics is a version of the law of conservation of energy, adapted for thermodynamic systems. The law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system is constant; energy can be transformed from one form to another, but cannot be created or destroyed.

The second Law of Thermodynamics states that the state of entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time. The second law also states that the changes in the entropy in the universe can never be negative.

The third law of thermodynamics is sometimes stated as follows, regarding the properties of systems in equilibrium at absolute zero temperature: The entropy of a perfect crystal at absolute zero is exactly equal to zero.

What is missed here is the relationship between mass and energy.  In other words, E = M C². God created the original mass of the universe with words (The Word) of unimaginable energy.  The laws of thermodynamics are true.  But when you go back to the universe's beginning, that's where thermodyamics falls short and ideas like the Big Bang and String Theory are modern attempts to explain the causal relationship of matter and energy.  What wonders await us when we're with God after this world has passed away.

[FresnoJoe]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2015 at 3:34 PM, siegi91 said:

We do not see today light emitted 46 billions light years away form any object. We see the light emitted a few billions light years away or less than that. At a time when the object emitting it was much closer to us.

The additional billions of light years come from the expansion of space that occurred in the meantime, that sets the distance of that object NOW much farther away.

Beloved, Please Don't Let The Light From The Sun

And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Genesis 1:16-19

Blind You From The Light

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:3-5

Of The SON

And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Genesis 22:4-5

~

Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise. Jeremiah 17:14

Love, Joe

[JohnD]

11 hours ago, FresnoJoe said:

  On 12/5/2015 at 3:34 PM, siegi91 said:

We do not see today light emitted 46 billions light years away form any object. We see the light emitted a few billions light years away or less than that. At a time when the object emitting it was much closer to us.

The additional billions of light years come from the expansion of space that occurred in the meantime, that sets the distance of that object NOW much farther away.

So c. is NOT the speed limit after all, otherwise what you said would be impossible. 

[JohnD]

No mater how you try to bury the facts in subterfuge arguments, you cannot have a 46+bill light year universe in only a 13+bill time frame.