Creation and an Old Earth - One Possibility

[1to3]

34 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

when did gravity begin?

Time is needed for gravity to exist

and the measure of time is different from different sides of gravity

 

29 minutes ago, hmbld said:

Interesting. yet could time have existed before creation, which would mean time exists without gravity?  

 

29 minutes ago, Teditis said:

I thought that weight and matter were needed for gravity to exist...

Since God is a weighty, matter... I would have to assume that time began with God.

So yes teditis kind of gave the answer that makes most sense to me.

I used to think without pondering on the gravity factor, that eternity had no time zone.

But at this point,  I don't know anymore.

Even scientists haven't yet figured out gravity in all its complexity.

The original concept was that gravity was a pull force, but now some theories are pointing gravity to being a push force.

Since time can have different measure  depending upon the side of gravity its coming from,

so maybe from the gravitational side of God, time is at at different measure

like the bible stated for us a thousand years years is like a day for God.

Psalm 90:43You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." 4For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by.

2Peter 3:8

…7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

 

so maybe from the gravitational side of God, time is at different measure.

[hmbld]

1 minute ago, 1to3 said:

 

 

 

so maybe from the gravitational side of God time is at at different measure

lol, never heard of the gravitational side of God, but I get it.

If God knows the beginning from the end, and was able to give Paul visions of what will happen yet even in our future, it seems God is already there, meaning He is at the beginning and the end, past and future, regardless of what gravity is.  Existing outside of time, which means even time is something created by God.

[1to3]

1 minute ago, hmbld said:

lol, never heard of the gravitational side of God, but I get it.

If God knows the beginning from the end, and was able to give Paul visions of what will happen yet even in our future, it seems God is already there, meaning He is at the beginning and the end, past and future, regardless of what gravity is.  Existing outside of time, which means even time is something created by God.

Yes, I agree to that.

But also time can't exist without gravity.

they are both part and parcel of creation.

And since God represents Life, He is the beginning of creation.

[Guest Thallasa]

6 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

On the surface there was no land. Just sea.  Obviously the core of the planet was the same as today..

1 In the beginning God created the sky and the land. ² Now the land was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

 ⁹ And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. ¹⁰ God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.”

 

Its seems pretty clear?

As you have put it here ,no it is not clear ,but by reading around , I now understand . I think if someone asks an important question it is curtesy to explain it properly  not just assume that one SHOULD know ?

I won't ask again  .   I understood what you were saying till then , and then you lost me .

[ARGOSY]

13 hours ago, Thallasa said:

As you have put it here ,no it is not clear ,but by reading around , I now understand . I think if someone asks an important question it is curtesy to explain it properly  not just assume that one SHOULD know ?

I won't ask again  .   I understood what you were saying till then , and then you lost me .

My apologies. I'm not always good at expressing myself.

[Kan]

This thread is becoming quite entertaining with humor.

By the way, gravity is not caused by matter, and neither does the proportion of matter necessarily determine the strength of gravity. While there is an apparent correlation between mass and gravity, it certainly is not consistent in observations. Unless one considers the theories proposed to explain the anomalies as true, such as the planet Saturn having been 'necessarily' reduced to a ball of gas to allow it to remain orbiting the sun.

[n2thelight]

God did not create this earth void and without form

[ARGOSY]

 

3 hours ago, n2thelight said:

God did not create this earth void and without form

God did create matter void at first.  Empty. We know this because life was only created on day 3.  So whatever he created on day 1 and 2 was void.    Devoid of life. Empty.   Surely?

Regarding "without form", well the Hebrew also means "empty" or "wasteland" or "wilderness".     The land was ocean floor, and had no life in it. A devoid wasteland under the ocean, similar to our ocean beds today, which at least have some life.

God created other planets too, empty wildernesses. Devoid of life. So I don't see this as outside the nature of God. It's all beautiful.

[n2thelight]

31 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

 

God did create matter void at first.  Empty. We know this because life was only created on day 3.  So whatever he created on day 1 and 2 was void.    Devoid of life. Empty.   Surely?

Regarding "without form", well the Hebrew also means "empty" or "wasteland" or "wilderness".     The land was ocean floor, and had no life in it. A devoid wasteland under the ocean, similar to our ocean beds today, which at least have some life.

God created other planets too, empty wildernesses. Devoid of life. So I don't see this as outside the nature of God. It's all beautiful.

Three World Ages

Peter is in his 2:nd epistle saying in chapter 3:

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old (Gr. Ekpalai = in time past through the idea of retrocession, to cede or give back territory, again, ancient), and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was ( 1:st world age) , being overflowed with water, perished:

'Perished' is not by the flood of Noah for 'perished' is the Gr. 'apollumi' which means 'destroy fully'. At Noah's flood the world, or earth, was not destroyed fully which we see below. 'Apollumi' is the same root as Satan's name Apollyon, Rev 9:11, which is the same root as in 'son of perdition', cp. 2 Thess 2, where the Gr. Scriptures use 'apoleia' for 'perdition'.

7 But the heavens and the earth which are now ( = 2:nd world age = 2:nd heaven and earth age), by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire (Hebr 12:29) against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Let us go to Jer 4:

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was (Hebr. 'hayah' = 'became', in this case) without form, and void (tuhu va bohu) ; and the heavens, and they had no light. See now what happened after this, Gen 1:2 ......and darkness was upon the face of the deep and Gen 1:3 And God said, 'Let there be light':...........).

There was light all the time during and after Noah's flood, so this is not Noah's flood, but the katabole.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

The hills didn't move and the mountains didn't tremble at Noah's flood. They were only covered with water, so this is not Noah's flood but the katabole.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

There were birds and men left at Noah's flood; on the ark, Noah himself for example; cp. Gen 8:11.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was (Hebr. 'hayah' = 'became', in this case) a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger.

Yes, there were cities in the first earth age. Cities were not broken down at Noah's flood. They were just covered with water a few months.

27 For thus hath the Lord said, 'The whole land shall be desolate: yet will I not make a full end.

The land was not desolate after Noah's flood as you see in other places in this chapter.

An interesting fact is that the flood is mentioned in the Chinese History books. Noah's flood was not necessarily world wide, but could have been limited to a certain area, where the fallen angels, Gen 6, operated, wholly seducing the Adamic people, by order from Satan of course, trying to destroy the lineage from where Christ was going to be born. Just like Satan tried in the Garden with Eve. That was the whole purpose with the flood, to destroy the fruit of this mixing.

Let us take some more references: Is 45:

18 For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it: He hath established it, He created it not in vain(tuhu) , He formed it to be inhabited: 'I am the Lord; and there is none else.

God didn't form the earth 'without form and void', 'tohu va bohu' in the Hebrew. It became 'tohu va bohu' at Satan's overthrow = the 'katabole' in the first earth age, Ez 28.

Gen 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

That was millions of years ago. Science has proved that enough, so it is true.

2 And the earth was(Hebr. 'hayah'='became', in this case, at the overthrow of Satan=the katabole) without form, and void(tohu va bohu) ; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

You see that the same word 'tuhu' is used in both Is 45:18 (vain) and Gen 1:2 (without form). There would be a contradiction here if 'hayah' in this case is not translated 'became'. Do you see that? The world can not be not 'tuhu' and 'tohu' at the same time.

Gen 8:

11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.

The dove came back with an olive leaf, which shows that this is not what it is talking about in Jer 4, where the whole land was desolate. An olive tree can not grow a leaf in days as was the time available here at the flood, if the land is desolate, it takes months or even years. There were no birds like here in Jer 4 either, and there was no man. That means that Jer 4 is not talking about Noah's flood but about the situation at the overthrow of Satan, which was before the foundation of this earth age, which begins in Gen 1:3. All the cities were broken down also. Ps 104 has this recorded too, where it says in verse

7 At Thy rebuke they fled; At the voice of Thy thunder they hasted (this is direct; the flood took several months) away.

2 Pet 3:

1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you: in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance (this is talking about the minds of the elect and reminding them about what happened in the first earth age) ;

The elect are people(souls) that stood up for God in the first earth age, when Satan rebelled and was overthrown, which is the katabole, which was before the foundation of this earth age, the age in which we live in a flesh body, Gen 1:

26 And God said, 'Let Us(God and the souls = we) make man(adam = man kind = flesh man) in our image, after Our likeness:.........

28 ........'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth,......

Why replenish? Because we lived here before, in the first earth age, but not in flesh as now. See Gen 6:

3 And the Lord said, 'My spirit shall not always strive with man(Adam, with article), for that he also(the animals were flesh in the first earth age, but not we) is flesh:........

When Christ returns and the millennium starts, we are back into a spiritual, or celestial, body again.

6 And it repented the Lord that He had made man on earth,..........

'Man on earth' means 'flesh man', cp. the expression 'under the sun' in the book of Ecclesiastes.

Eph 1:

4 According as He hath chosen us(the elect) in him before the foundation (Gr. katabole, from kataballo = throw down, from Gr. kata = down and Gr. ballo = throw; this is the overthrow of Satan in the first earth age before this earth age, Ez 28, which was before the 'foundation' of the present earth age) of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:

Some of the souls stood up for God in the first earth age against Satan at his rebellion and was rewarded by being chosen by God, for God can trust them; they earned it. These are the elect.

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself,

Rom 8:

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose.

29 For whom He did forknow (from the first earth age), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified (cp. Rev 20:6 'they' = the elect, who take part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power): and whom He justified, them He also glorified.

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God That justifieth.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife(not the bride here because it is talking about the elect) hath made herself ready.'

The elect were already 'married' to Christ, spiritually of course, in the first earth age, while the rest of the Christians are still a bride.

Elect is in the Hebrew tongue Zadok = just.

The reason God created the flesh man, us, living in flesh in this second earth age, was that He didn't want to destroy a third of His children, the third of the stars(souls) that followed Satan at his rebellion, Rev 12:4. He destroyed the first earth age instead, as explained above, and let us be born through woman (born from above, commonly called 'born again', and mostly misunderstood), through the water in the womb, innocent, that will say the memory from the first earth age erased (otherwise we wouldn't be innocent), cp. 2 Pet 3:1, to make our choice between God and Satan in this earth age, the second earth age. When Christ returns this second earth age is finished, and the third and the last begins, and we are not going to be in a flesh (terrestrial) body any more but in a spiritual (celestial) body. We are changed, cp. 1 Cor 15:51-52 and 1 Thess 4:17. Observe that the word air in 1 Thess 4:17 is the Greek word aer from aemi = spirit, the breath of life, and not the Greek word ouranos = sky, cp. Ez 13:17-20. This has to do with the 'rapture theory', which is a deception, and is a subject for an other time.

The beginning of the third and last earth age is the thousand year period, the millennium, see Rev 20. During the millennium are more people going to be saved than ever before. The reason is that most people are deceived now, cp. Rev 13:3, where it says that '...........all the world wondered after the beast'. This beast is the 'one world system or order', which is Satan's(the second beast in the same chapter, Rev 13:11) system for deception, set up for him by the Kenites = his sons, before he is booted out on earth, Rev 12:9.

Also, observe 'behemoth' = 'dinosaurs (and brontosaurs)' in Job 40:15-17 He moveth his tale like a cedar:...............They lived in the first earth age, long before we became men in flesh. We existed but in a celestial body. The earth's axis was 'straight up' at that time. When God destroyed the first earth age at the katabole, God moved the axis to a leaning position. The temperature fell drastically, where the dinosaurs were, because of it, and they became deep frozen in a hurry. The geographical poles are today 90 miles off the magnetic poles for this reason, and we have ice in the polar areas, and we have changes of seasons in this earth age. The scientists' (who dug the dinosaurs up from the tundra) dogs could eat the flesh of the dinosaurs after cooking it, so well was the meat preserved in the frozen tundra. When the dinosaurs lived on the tundra, in the first earth age, the climate was much warmer on that latitude. There was no ice. Therefore they found buttercups in the dinosaurs' mouths. There could be additional reasons for the dramatic fall of temperature at the katabole. For example, if a big meteor plunged into the earth, a lot of dust and more would have been stirred up, and would have prohibited the rays from the sun to reach the earth for a while. Remember that God always works in natural ways, he uses the elements, because He is super natural, which means He is more natural than we are.

We read in Jer 4:

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

28 For this reason shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black:....................

29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets,...................

'Bowmen' is the Hebrew 'ramah', which means 'to hurt, to shoot, to delude or betray (as if causing to fall), beguile, deceive, throw'. Satan does all that. 'Thickets' is 'thick cloud', of dust, or of whatever, including deception. This is of course a type for the end times with Antichrist, cp. Rev 6:2, where we have........ a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow;....................

The 'bow' here is the Greek 'toxon', which is a cheap imitation of the simplest fabric, symbolizing false glory, which shows it is talking about Antichrist, Satan, on the horse, and not Jesus as in Rev 19:11 with His Shekinah Glory. Satan is a copy cat and loves to disguise himself to Christ and be worshipped, 2 Cor 11:14, where 'transformed' should have been translated 'disguised', for it is 'metaschematizo' in the Greek text.

We know about the darkness, Rev 9:2 ........there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke.........,that will say the deception, and the flood of lies in the end times of this present, the second, earth age by Satan and his people, Rev 12:15 .....the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood......that he might cause........to be carried away of the flood, and 16 And the earth helped.........and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. We see here how within the Scriptures are woven ensamples, 1 Cor 10:11. Here is the change between the first and the second earth ages woven with the change between the second and the third (the approaching) earth ages.

Now, when the dust, we talked about, successively settled onto the earth, the ice that had frozen under it, on a large part of the earth, melted and created the first flood, 2 Pet 3:6, which was not Noah's flood, see above. The ice in the tundra didn't melt though, because of the leaning axis of the earth and consequential seasons.

There are of course more references in the Bible for the three earth ages.
 

http://www.hvhy.org/threeworldages.html

[n2thelight]

How long do you think it took the continents to become as they are?Do you think it happened because of Noahs flood?

 

Edited May 6, 2017 by OneLight
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